phillipsr 2,053 Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, BobC said: Forgetting Woffinden then? Who learnt his trade in Australia and even if you did argue he was a product of the NL then that was 2005 .. Lambert learnt in Germany... there really isnt anyone 3 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Takes deep breath.....when was the last time any league produced a "truly world class rider"? The top riders come from the dedication of themselves, family & friends who pu in all the dirty work both at the start and throughout their careers. Then add in a mixture of fortune, fitness and opportunities opening up at the right times. Add one heck of a big pinch of finances and you have the recipe for a "potential" world class rider. Any club who claims to have produced a world beater is blinkered and ignorant, clubs and leagues all however provide vital stepping stones in riders progress. It could be argued that the NDL like every other league contributes to every riders success due to its very existence. So those riders would of got there anyway? NDL doesn't do what its meant to do even its successes (Auty, Kerr, Etc) are nowhere near the top of the sport Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,246 Posted June 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, phillipsr said: Who learnt his trade in Australia and even if you did argue he was a product of the NL then that was 2005 .. Lambert learnt in Germany... there really isnt anyone So those riders would of got there anyway? NDL doesn't do what its meant to do even its successes (Auty, Kerr, Etc) are nowhere near the top of the sport No my point was that its not particular clubs or leagues that can claim they made world level rider sits the whole picture. By your reckoning every country should get rid of its lower level leagues and just run the top league? If you take away the poles which other nation has generated any world level riders in the same time frame? The NDL cannot ensure that riders hits the heights of "world level" it can only act as a platform to provide the opportunities. Will Bewley, Palin, Flint, Bickley, Rowe, Atkins, the Thompsons achieve it who knows but its not a bad place to start out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillipsr 2,053 Posted June 26, 2019 39 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: No my point was that its not particular clubs or leagues that can claim they made world level rider sits the whole picture. By your reckoning every country should get rid of its lower level leagues and just run the top league? If you take away the poles which other nation has generated any world level riders in the same time frame? The NDL cannot ensure that riders hits the heights of "world level" it can only act as a platform to provide the opportunities. Will Bewley, Palin, Flint, Bickley, Rowe, Atkins, the Thompsons achieve it who knows but its not a bad place to start out. Aus - Holder, Ward, Doyle, Fricke Russia - Sayfutdinov, Laguta x 2 Den - MJJ, Michlesen, Thomsen All riding to far higher levels than anything we have produced over the the last 15 years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,246 Posted June 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, phillipsr said: Aus - Holder, Ward, Doyle, Fricke Russia - Sayfutdinov, Laguta x 2 Den - MJJ, Michlesen, Thomsen All riding to far higher levels than anything we have produced over the the last 15 years 15 years is a fair amount of time range of those listed above only Fricke, Michelsen & Milik if you had included are stepping onto the world stage in the past 5 years. Don't forget that the original point was the merit of the NDL and not what riders have been "produced" in the UK as the issues hindering the progression to world level is far greater than one league (but that wasn't your original point). Could it not be argued that any rider who raced in the UK had benefited from it and helped them achieve world level status was produced by the UK? Oh and Darcy did alright in the UK National League. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, phillipsr said: Aus - Holder, Ward, Doyle, Fricke Russia - Sayfutdinov, Laguta x 2 Den - MJJ, Michlesen, Thomsen All riding to far higher levels than anything we have produced over the the last 15 years Because the UK had no joined up youth policy and relied on riders coming through by chance. Its a world of difference now and if Palin is an example of what we can produce then there is hope! Edited June 26, 2019 by GWC 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
porkypotter 40 Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 9:31 AM, BobC said: Forgetting Woffinden then? what about craig cook and dan bewley. I think craig rode for buxton. dan is a star of the future and rode for the belle vue colts I think so to say the league is not fit for purpose is very harsh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) The 3rd tier is one of the best things to happen in British speedway in the last 30 years, if not ever! The 3rd Division should have started in the late 70's/ early 80's when a number of tracks were starting to struggle with the then 2nd Division (called the National League) getting more and more expensive. The great promotor that was Ian Thomas said as much at the time. Maybe then tracks like Barrow, Workington, Milton Keynes, Castleford, Boston, Scunthorpe, Paisley, Ellesmere Port, Birmingham Bordesley Green and probably others would of had a longer more viable existence in the sport. These combined with training tracks of the day like Felton, Iwade and Ringwood and other potential venues that would have been tempted to open in the lower cost League would of made a decent League that in them days would have been in undated with potential riders to make up the teams! The current struggles of one of Britains top prospects Drew Kemp in the 2nd tier emphasizes how the 3rd tier is needed to help nurture young riders rather than put them off by throwing them in the deep end of the 2nd tier to soon! Without the 3rd tier, Birmingham and Eastbourne would have closed a number of years ago which would have had a knock on effect in the 2nd tier cause without the Brummies and Eagles this season the 2nd tier would be down to 9 tracks! Likewise would speedway at Somerset have ever been attempted without the safety net of the 3rd tier when they first opened in 2000? Would Berwick have re emerged in the 2nd tier had they not had a number of seasons building themselves up again in the 3rd tier in the 1990's? I'm sure at some point attempts will be made to re establish League racing at Rye House, what's the betting this will be in the 3rd tier? Look at today! - Without the 3rd Division, I wouldn't be going of to West Row to hopefully enjoy Mildenhall take on Thurrock a currently homeless team which is no doubt being helped in their attempts to find a new track of their own by being able to run challenge matches at 3rd tier level. Combine this with the fac that young riders will be getting valuable track time especially in the junior match that takes place after the main meeting! Edited June 30, 2019 by 25yearfan 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 1:51 PM, phillipsr said: Aus - Holder, Ward, Doyle, Fricke Russia - Sayfutdinov, Laguta x 2 Den - MJJ, Michlesen, Thomsen All riding to far higher levels than anything we have produced over the the last 15 years But our league has provided endless opportunities for all nationalities for me the future is bright.for us.Kemp, Palin Rowe ( etc) can progress hope so i certainly think we have bridged the gap.in recent years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobC 664 Posted June 30, 2019 David had a frightening crash on Friday at Plymouth. Happened right in front of where I stand. Very very lucky he wasnt run over. Clipped Atkins back wheel just after start line,then face planted the track at high speed.Took a while to sort him out.Knocked out cold. Concussion, so means he is unlikely to ride this coming week. 9 days,I believe. Unlucky start for him, but looked fast. Fingers crossed he is back sooner rather than later. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillipsr 2,053 Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: But our league has provided endless opportunities for all nationalities for me the future is bright.for us.Kemp, Palin Rowe ( etc) can progress hope so i certainly think we have bridged the gap.in recent years. Theres promise there but where do those riders rank against there Polish, Aus, Dan etc counterparts.. have a feeling they will end up closer to the likes of Auty, Howarth and Worrall as average British league riders as opposed to Bartek, Smektala, Kubera etc 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted July 1, 2019 7 hours ago, phillipsr said: Theres promise there but where do those riders rank against there Polish, Aus, Dan etc counterparts.. have a feeling they will end up closer to the likes of Auty, Howarth and Worrall as average British league riders as opposed to Bartek, Smektala, Kubera etc One of those reasons are the practice facilities in this Country are not there on a regualar basis.Yes there is a long way to go but Vatcher is making a great fist of it with limited resources. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,993 Posted February 14, 2021 On 17/06/2019 at 4:26 PM, Fortythirtyeight said: So the lad gets dropped ( the reasons don't matter for this point ) and now has his ' guest ' bookings for a Championship club cancelled as he's not in a declared National League team any longer. So now he has no team and no bookings. Any wonder this sport can't be taken seriously? I've always hated that rule, riders without a club being allowed to guest is far more ideal than riding against your teams rivals, but not being allowed makes no sense to me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,993 Posted February 14, 2021 On 30/06/2019 at 11:08 AM, 25yearfan said: The 3rd tier is one of the best things to happen in British speedway in the last 30 years, if not ever! The 3rd Division should have started in the late 70's/ early 80's when a number of tracks were starting to struggle with the then 2nd Division (called the National League) getting more and more expensive. The great promotor that was Ian Thomas said as much at the time. Maybe then tracks like Barrow, Workington, Milton Keynes, Castleford, Boston, Scunthorpe, Paisley, Ellesmere Port, Birmingham Bordesley Green and probably others would of had a longer more viable existence in the sport. These combined with training tracks of the day like Felton, Iwade and Ringwood and other potential venues that would have been tempted to open in the lower cost League would of made a decent League that in them days would have been in undated with potential riders to make up the teams! The current struggles of one of Britains top prospects Drew Kemp in the 2nd tier emphasizes how the 3rd tier is needed to help nurture young riders rather than put them off by throwing them in the deep end of the 2nd tier to soon! Without the 3rd tier, Birmingham and Eastbourne would have closed a number of years ago which would have had a knock on effect in the 2nd tier cause without the Brummies and Eagles this season the 2nd tier would be down to 9 tracks! Likewise would speedway at Somerset have ever been attempted without the safety net of the 3rd tier when they first opened in 2000? Would Berwick have re emerged in the 2nd tier had they not had a number of seasons building themselves up again in the 3rd tier in the 1990's? I'm sure at some point attempts will be made to re establish League racing at Rye House, what's the betting this will be in the 3rd tier? Look at today! - Without the 3rd Division, I wouldn't be going of to West Row to hopefully enjoy Mildenhall take on Thurrock a currently homeless team which is no doubt being helped in their attempts to find a new track of their own by being able to run challenge matches at 3rd tier level. Combine this with the fac that young riders will be getting valuable track time especially in the junior match that takes place after the main meeting! Very good points! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 14, 2021 Without the 3rd division we’d never have got a bonus four seasons at Wimbledon between 2002-05. I’ll always be thankful for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted February 14, 2021 Exactly and it could be a long time before we ever see speedway in the capital again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
