acef 795 Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Aces51 said: Neither of them has lost their bottle. They are not backing out of tight first bends and are chasing close to other riders when behind. I tend to agree that Steve may have reached his standard in the top league, a good second string but wouldn't yet count out further improvement. Dan is coming back from a more recent and more serious injury. He returned to racing much earlier than expected and it is unrealistic to expect him to already be back to where he was. I think he is also suffering from a lack of meetings. The Premier to Championship average formula makes it very difficult for him to get a place in that league and his Polish team seem not to be prepared to allow him time to settle back into racing there. He's fell out with his polish club, but rospigana have picked him up in the swedish league. I also think he will end up at Edinburgh which will help. Steve is another matter imo. He's just not on the planet at the minute and is prone to a really poor meeting, something we haven't seen for a few years now. He should be scoring at least 8 a meeting from number 4, especially at home. Our middle order this season is a huge issue. It's not delivering anywhere near what was expected and ultimately will cost us a place in the play offs I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted July 3, 2019 7 hours ago, acef said: TBH this season is a write off for me, we are not making the play offs with this team. Are you only bothered about winning, then? Do you not attend because you enjoy the sport itself? In years gone by, it never seemed to matter that much, fans of the sport went week in, week out mainly for the love of speedway And there was possibly more attachment to individual riders rather than the teams, highlighted when the big individual meetings came around Trips down to that London for World Final, Internationale, etc were the big occasions Of course, you had to attend to see the sport, as it wasn't all over the tv and other screens then 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted July 3, 2019 On 2 July 2019 at 3:47 PM, NeilWatson said: The difference is that Ricky Wells is injured, so Belle Vue couldn't revert to the previous declaration. For correctness, Wells' average from 1st July is 4.24 (converts to 6.36) Which exceeds 6.36 Correct ! Can you talk me through that one, Mr W - please! What exceeds 6.36? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Midland Red said: Are you only bothered about winning, then? Do you not attend because you enjoy the sport itself? In years gone by, it never seemed to matter that much, fans of the sport went week in, week out mainly for the love of speedway And there was possibly more attachment to individual riders rather than the teams, highlighted when the big individual meetings came around Trips down to that London for World Final, Internationale, etc were the big occasions Of course, you had to attend to see the sport, as it wasn't all over the tv and other screens then Will attend regardless. Where we finish wont stop that, certainly at the NSS where the racing is outstanding. I still travel across the uk watching the sport, I just have a general passion for motorsport so winning or losing is immaterial to me. But people like you and me are few and far between. My concern for bv is the money that the play offs will bring. We are suffering with a Thursday race night so getting there is key, it could potentially keep the current promotion involved and the club alive. If we keep this team, then there is a distinct reality that it may not happen. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted July 3, 2019 "Suffering with a Thursday" - I believe you suffer also with Monday nights Supports the case for UK speedway teams to operate on the best night for them Belle Vue, like Coventry, was always a Saturday night track It has to happen - it may not work, I know - but it has to be given a chance, and the goodwill has to be there, for a bigger "senior league" operating whatever nights tracks want, need, to run, and if it means some sort of rider control, like we saw years back, and we lose some riders who chase the zloty, etc., then so be it Otherwise, UK speedway will be gone 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ouch 1,191 Posted July 3, 2019 It amazes me that we can be considered rubbish, if we had scored 5 more race points in certain meetings - which has a minuscule effect on the overall team performance, we would have 7 more match points. Everyone would be extolling the virtues of this great team as we sat proud at the top of the league. The lost points against Poole this week has as much to do with off track shenanigans as it does on track performance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted July 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, ouch said: It amazes me that we can be considered rubbish, if we had scored 5 more race points in certain meetings - which has a minuscule effect on the overall team performance, we would have 7 more match points. Everyone would be extolling the virtues of this great team as we sat proud at the top of the league. The lost points against Poole this week has as much to do with off track shenanigans as it does on track performance. Your team was beaten fair and square on track in both meetings. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said: Your team was beaten fair and square on track in both meetings. It wasn't. The rules said we had to effectively track a 6 man team. That's outside common sense given the circumstances and tbh steve, we would likely have beaten you with tero. I see what ouch is saying. The authority is too busy being a cartel and trying to stop a legitimate success that it didnt see the greater good. That is selfish. BV have some issues in terms of team strength but dont let that cloud your judgement, you had good guests and rr better served richie's points so let's not dress it against a team with 6 riders. It was a good win, bit you will not do that in the play off against a full bv team, if we make it. Edited July 3, 2019 by acef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, acef said: It wasn't. The rules said we had to effectively track a 6 man team. That's outside common sense given the circumstances and tbh steve, we would likely have beaten you with tero. I see what ouch is saying. The authority is too busy being a cartel and trying to stop a legitimate success that it didnt see the greater good. That is selfish. BV have some issues in terms of team strength but dont let that cloud your judgement, you had good guests and rr better served richie's points so let's not dress it against a team with 6 riders. It was a good win, bit you will not do that in the play off against a full bv team, if we make it. Had Teri rode, if Covatti had rode.......We would wipe the floor with you should we meet in the playoffs. Probably winning at home by a fair margin and winning at NSS as well. The Poole team this year is superior to Belle Vue’s, especially at 3 and 4 and reserve. BV might have a better top two but that’s about it. Ipswich will win there next week. Edited July 3, 2019 by Steve Shovlar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted July 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Midland Red said: Can you talk me through that one, Mr W - please! What exceeds 6.36? The post I was responding to (below) made four points On 7/2/2019 at 9:41 AM, ouch said: We signed Tero but due to his injury we had to revert to our previous declaration and include Ricky. This is what also happened at Kings Lynn with Nicol/Lambert. Issue 13 PL averages effective 1/07/19 have Ricky at 4.52. This allows us to use a CL guest up to 6.78. Issue 16 CL averages effective 1/07/19 have Vissing 6.65 Aces rode against Poole 01/07/19 My response was also in four parts On 7/2/2019 at 3:47 PM, NeilWatson said: The difference is that Ricky Wells is injured, so Belle Vue couldn't revert to the previous declaration. For correctness, Wells' average from 1st July is 4.24 (converts to 6.36) Which exceeds 6.36 Correct ! What I was saying was that Vissing's CL average of 6.65 exceeded 6.36 (the CL points that would have been available to replace Ricky Wells had he been in the team). This all arose from 'Ouch' insisting that Belle Vue had been hard done by, when the rules had been correctly applied. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted July 3, 2019 1 minute ago, NeilWatson said: The post I was responding to (below) made four points My response was also in four parts What I was saying was that Vissing's CL average of 6.65 exceeded 6.36 (the CL points that would have been available to replace Ricky Wells had he been in the team). This all arose from 'Ouch' insisting that Belle Vue had been hard done by, when the rules had been correctly applied. Gotcha! Thanks, Mr W! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speedtiger 327 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Midland Red said: "Suffering with a Thursday" - I believe you suffer also with Monday nights Supports the case for UK speedway teams to operate on the best night for them Belle Vue, like Coventry, was always a Saturday night track It has to happen - it may not work, I know - but it has to be given a chance, and the goodwill has to be there, for a bigger "senior league" operating whatever nights tracks want, need, to run, and if it means some sort of rider control, like we saw years back, and we lose some riders who chase the zloty, etc., then so be it Otherwise, UK speedway will be gone Agreed and everyone knows that but the idiots who run BV and speedway agreed to run on nights that fans clearly don’t want to go to and thats losing them fortunes...!! You couldn’t make it up. If only the people running the show read and took onboard what’s on here things might change, BUT don’t hold your breath! It’s all to late. Edited July 3, 2019 by Speedtiger 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ouch 1,191 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Midland Red said: Gotcha! Thanks, Mr W! Oops!! http://www.speedwaygb.co.uk/19results/belle_vue_01.07.19_res.pdf Issue 12 is good to. Its all above board, honest. Edited July 3, 2019 by ouch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,081 Posted July 3, 2019 The problems at Belle Vue are obvious, Worrall, Bewley and Lidsey, all riders who they will stick with and may be a benefit next season but will continue to hurt them this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bald Bloke 3,281 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, foreverblue said: The problems at Belle Vue are obvious, Worrall, Bewley and Lidsey, all riders who they will stick with and may be a benefit next season but will continue to hurt them this season. Not as way off as you might think. Bewley Finished a great 2018 early with a 7.19 ave. Had serious injuries. His 2019 league meeting ave is 6.27... Considering he is young and probably his 1st big injury I don't think he has dropped much. Maybe less than Rob Lambert has dropped.... Worrall averaged 6.32 in 2018. Suffered serious injury. His 2019 league meeting ave is 6.11. Less than TJ has dropped... Lidsey, assessed 4.00 ? I can't remember.In 2019 he has averaged 4.21 in league meetings. If the 4.00 is right he's done ok. Edited July 3, 2019 by Bald Bloke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
