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SON finals Togliatti Sat/Sun July 20th/21st Live on BT Sport

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What an embarrassment !   glad the team was classed as GB, as at least Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can be ridiculed too.

Time for Leonard  (ooh Miss Jones)  AKA Alun, Rossiter to realise he aint any good -  only hope his football FA coaching badges can redeem him. 

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3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

He has always be mechanically inept.He has  entered and qualified for the GP Challenge so he  still thinks he is a GP rider ,and if you read his article in SS last week he has hope of emulating Hancock:rolleyes:

He may still think he is a GP rider but.....

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2 hours ago, tyler42 said:

But to get to those meetings you had to qualify from the British Final :wink:. I'm sure i read somewhere, Chris Morton said it was the hardest meeting for him to qualify from. Maybe he meant the track was a bit too slick for his liking and not being that good from the gate he found it tougher.

Of course the British Final was tough. My point refers to the comment where the poster apparently thinks that only winners should advance to finals. In those days, you could finish fifth, eighth, sixth, and then eleventh in a series of meetings, yet you would be in the World Final - which it was possible to win without even winning a race!

Steve

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3 hours ago, Terry said:

A pint? That's very nearly an armful!

Showing your age, pal!!! Like me... :(

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1 hour ago, markyb said:

What an embarrassment !   glad the team was classed as GB, as at least Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can be ridiculed too.

Time for Leonard  (ooh Miss Jones)  AKA Alun, Rossiter to realise he aint any good -  only hope his football FA coaching badges can redeem him. 

The only embarrassment is that we don't have enough quality replacements, which isn't exactly Rosco's fault... Even had we taken Bewley - or anyone else, for that matter - instead of Harris, we would still have brought up the rear.

Steve

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10 minutes ago, chunky said:

Of course the British Final was tough. My point refers to the comment where the poster apparently thinks that only winners should advance to finals. In those days, you could finish fifth, eighth, sixth, and then eleventh in a series of meetings, yet you would be in the World Final - which it was possible to win without even winning a race!

Steve

Mathematical possible Steve, but it never happened. The most points you could get without winning a race as you would know, would be 10pts. the lowest ever was 12pts. I think the SON's would have been in my opinion more credible if like other major sports events, we had two semi-finals and a final. Rather than basically a run off after two days of speedway.

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Does anybody else think that the final next year could be in Argentina or some other far flung place

 

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1 hour ago, tyler42 said:

Mathematical possible Steve, but it never happened. The most points you could get without winning a race as you would know, would be 10pts. the lowest ever was 12pts. I think the SON's would have been in my opinion more credible if like other major sports events, we had two semi-finals and a final. Rather than basically a run off after two days of speedway.

You're really missing the point. Everyone whines about how flawed the modern systems (GP's, SoN, etc) are, but the old systems which people seem to prefer are no less flawed!  As I have said repeatedly, whatever system is used, there will always be anomalies and weird occurrences.

I agree - in principle - with your comment about two semis and a final, but there aren't enough nations of suitable strength to provide two decent and competitive semis. Forgetting the poor track in Togliatti, how much better could it have been had we had Woffinden and a fit Lambert, and the Germans had Smolinski with Huckenbeck?

Like many others, I think the biggest flaw with the SoN is the compulsory inclusion - and use - of Under-21's. If you want to find the strongest "nation" (be it pairs, 4-man teams, or whatever), then let them choose their strongest riders, regardless of age. Of course, the system benefits GB (when the riders are fit) because of Lambert, but instead of equalizing team strengths, all it does is favour teams like GB and Poland.

Steve

 

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5 hours ago, chunky said:

Like many others, I think the biggest flaw with the SoN is the compulsory inclusion - and use - of Under-21's. If you want to find the strongest "nation" (be it pairs, 4-man teams, or whatever), then let them choose their strongest riders, regardless of age. Of course, the system benefits GB (when the riders are fit) because of Lambert, but instead of equalizing team strengths, all it does is favour teams like GB and Poland.

And you may be missing a point. Some teams don’t have 3 strong riders to chose from. What nations in that situation need is development of young ones, so to help them develop young ones make it so they have the need to develop them. That where GB is lacking, the development of young ones, whereas Poland develops young ones. Hence the choice of team GB should, this year after Tai was ruled out, Cook and Lambert, with a developing under 21 at reserve, rather then keep Lambert at reserve knowing full well there would be a very strong chance he would be used a lot, with an old dog in the team.  We will see that next year, if all are fit it will be Tai and Robert with a developing rider at reserve.

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I think it would be interesting to know how many  “personnel” GB had with them at the SON finals, as I can’t see any benefit apart from maybe a physio, any of the nutritionists, fitness coaches, agony aunts, sleep coaches etc being there, by the time the meeting comes round what can they do? It’s been documented in the past of complaints from other teams about the amount of extra personnel GB had in the pits. It was said on the TV coverage that Dave Rowe was assisting Rossiter in the pits, was he there just for this? or in some journalistic capacity? 

Now my point about this, it was said Bewley had a visa in place, if so save a seat on the plane for the boy instead of any of the above, let him take a set of his preferred handlebars and seat ( as cook did for the GP challenge there, he didn’t take bikes ) if freight costs were an issue, then if he was required, fit these to a fellow team members bike, not ideal but good enough to feel comfortable. If he wasnt required to ride just let him soak in the occasion, observe and take in how the nations at the sharp end go about things. 

Edited by timetoturnleftagain
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5 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

And you may be missing a point. Some teams don’t have 3 strong riders to chose from. What nations in that situation need is development of young ones, so to help them develop young ones make it so they have the need to develop them. That where GB is lacking, the development of young ones, whereas Poland develops young ones. Hence the choice of team GB should, this year after Tai was ruled out, Cook and Lambert, with a developing under 21 at reserve, rather then keep Lambert at reserve knowing full well there would be a very strong chance he would be used a lot, with an old dog in the team.  We will see that next year, if all are fit it will be Tai and Robert with a developing rider at reserve.

Not missing the point at all. If a nation doesn't have three strong senior riders, it is highly unlikely that they will have a competitive under-21. Again, that is where GB are lucky; the best under-21 is also the nation's second best senior rider!

I have said this before though, that throwing kids in at the deep end can be very counter-productive. In hindsight, it may have been better to take another under-21 instead of Harris, but you must admit, once you get past Woffinden, Lambert, and Cook, the list of Brits who can genuinely compete at world level is pretty bloody sparse!

Funny thing is, we have a lot of "good" youngsters, but none of them (outside of Lambert) are anywhere near ready. Having said that, history will show that VERY few of the best teenagers actually develop into true world-class riders, and that youth development programs actually generate little in the way of world-class contenders. What happens in reality is that once every few years, someone special comes along, and any connections to a youth programme are likely to be coincidental. That isn't just a British thing, and neither is it a speedway problem either; it is the way of things.

Steve

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7 hours ago, pete cc said:

Does anybody else think that the final next year could be in Argentina or some other far flung place

 

If it is to be in Russia , as seems likely, anywhere but Togliatti would generate worldwide interest ( well, that is within the small world of speedway ).

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22 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

If it is to be in Russia , as seems likely, anywhere but Togliatti would generate worldwide interest ( well, that is within the small world of speedway ).

would that be because really no one knows any other track in Russia other then Togliatti ?

Surely, just because Russia has won the title 2 years on the trot doesn't mean it has to have the final next year?  Its a bit like speedway world championship in the 1950/60's ...... always in the UK always at Wembley. Other countries started asking for it, hence Sweden, then Denmark, Poland, USA, Germany, Holland.  Just cant tie it down tho the winning country. Sure Russia must of been well overdue a world final of some sort........... just think if the had a world speedway final in the 60's, what a real chance for Igor Plechanov or Boris Samarodov, but I am sure if a Russian won in Russia the championship would not have gone back their the following year.

To me, Togliatti is a track not to have another world championship event in its present form, but probably will. Sad but likely.

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The meeting for me was a flop very very little team riding can only recall it happening once when dudek slowed the inside line down to wait for smarzlik to get round the outside oh and lambert waiting for Harris but with a different result. If the organisers want it to be a success give the riders a track where they can with confidence look for their team mate and ride as a team. If they go with having it in Russia again can see it being a flop again,for me polands the place most of the riders involved ride there regularly 

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1 hour ago, waytogo28 said:

If it is to be in Russia , as seems likely, anywhere but Togliatti would generate worldwide interest ( well, that is within the small world of speedway ).

PERSONALLY (nothing more) don't think it will go back to Togliatti next year. They should have a rota , like golf. The Open won't go back to Portrush in 2020 because Lowry won this year. It would also give countries (towns, tracks, etc) longer to prepare in every sense.

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