Chris116 756 Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Skidder1 said: Am I right in recalling that if you sat in the grandstand at Exeter - other than in the front row - you couldn't see the start line or home straight? Yes, and if you sat on the front row you still had to lean forward a bit which didn't go down well with those behind you. Only went once, paid to go in the stand but after one race went out and spent the evening on the terraces watching each race from a different point around the track. There was enough dirt to allow a leg trailer on a Rudge to go well! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted July 21, 2019 The lower the crowds are, the more expensive admission will be and the more it'll alienate hard up supporters. Much of the admission money, I may be wrong, will be paid by the promoter to the rider, who then pay a fair amount of what he has just earned to keep his engines in pristine shape. It is money going out of the sport and league speedway will not be able to withstand it for much longer. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,273 Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, moxey63 said: The lower the crowds are, the more expensive admission will be and the more it'll alienate hard up supporters. Much of the admission money, I may be wrong, will be paid by the promoter to the rider, who then pay a fair amount of what he has just earned to keep his engines in pristine shape. It is money going out of the sport and league speedway will not be able to withstand it for much longer. A truly ludicrous race to the bottom isn't it? Promoters demanding riders have the best kit to win competitions that by the way they run them have absolutely zero worth.. Meaning. Riders spending fortunes on gaining the best kit they can find and paying for expensive tuning, just to remain at the same level as their rivals because they are all doing exactly the same thing.. Meaning. Promoters paying out unaffordable and unsustainable levels to riders to pay for the best kit and tuning they demand of them... Meaning. Fans having to pay admission costs far in excess of what the Sports standing actually is, and far in excess of what actual entertainment value is put on offer to them.. Meaning. A reduction year on year of fans due to the higher admission costs needed to fund the racing.. All to compete in, try to win, and watch competitions that Mickey Mouse would be embarrassed to have organised... If you tried to put together this as a business or operating model to launch a new venture you would be laughed at out loud by any potential investors wouldn't you? Yet this is the model British Speedway uses year in year out... Amazing really... Edited July 21, 2019 by mikebv 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted July 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Am I right in recalling that if you sat in the grandstand at Exeter - other than in the front row - you couldn't see the start line or home straight? Remember it well on my first visit to the County Ground! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Remember it well on my first visit to the County Ground! Yes, I recall that, too! Edited July 21, 2019 by Midland Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted July 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Am I right in recalling that if you sat in the grandstand at Exeter - other than in the front row - you couldn't see the start line or home straight? You had to stand up to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, mikebv said: A truly ludicrous race to the bottom isn't it? Promoters demanding riders have the best kit to win competitions that by the way they run them have absolutely zero worth.. Meaning. Riders spending fortunes on gaining the best kit they can find and paying for expensive tuning, just to remain at the same level as their rivals because they are all doing exactly the same thing.. Meaning. Promoters paying out unaffordable and unsustainable levels to riders to pay for the best kit and tuning they demand of them... Meaning. Fans having to pay admission costs far in excess of what the Sports standing actually is, and far in excess of what actual entertainment value is put on offer to them.. Meaning. A reduction year on year of fans due to the higher admission costs needed to fund the racing.. All to compete in, try to win, and watch competitions that Mickey Mouse would be embarrassed to have organised... If you tried to put together this as a business or operating model to launch a new venture you would be laughed at out loud by any potential investors wouldn't you? Yet this is the model British Speedway uses year in year out... Amazing really... I don't think speedway's competitions are Mickey Mouse at all but otherwise you are pretty much spot on. The other thing is that in those days speedway was very much a part time occupation for the overwhelming majority of riders even during the season - Mick Bell (a three time British League championship winner and decent second string/reserve in the 1970's) once said that for him it was 'a good paying hobby'. Nowadays, it seems to me that - NL riders excepted - they regard it as a full time job (which is why we have the blight of uncontrolled doubling up) and require payment to that level. Costs have definitely risen, but so have expectations. That simply has to change. Edited July 22, 2019 by Halifaxtiger 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piotr Pyszny 206 Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) On 7/21/2019 at 10:46 AM, Skidder1 said: Am I right in recalling that if you sat in the grandstand at Exeter - other than in the front row - you couldn't see the start line or home straight? That's certainly my recollection of watching speedway at the County Ground, while working in Exeter (1997-98). The grandstand was the last vantage point you'd pick. Did the OP refer to a "thrilling" evening? Wow. Can' recall too many of those at Exeter. It was mostly follow-the-leader, everybody-strung-out-after-one-lap stuff on a gaters' track where passing was virtually impossible (as poor Joe Screen discovered during Pete Jeffrey's testimonial meeting). Most of the opposition riders seemed beaten before they started. I remember one National League/Division Two stalwart telling me: "Exeter? That's not speedway." Edited July 23, 2019 by Piotr Pyszny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said: That's certainly my recollection of watching speedway at the County Ground, while working in Exeter (1997-98). The grandstand was the last vantage point you'd pick. Did the OP refer to a "thrilling" evening? Wow. Can' recall too many of those at Exeter. It was mostly follow-the-leader, everybody-strung-out-after-one-lap stuff on a gaters' track where passing was virtually impossible (as poor Joe Screen discovered during Pete Jeffrey's testimonial meeting). Most of the opposition riders seemed beaten before they started. I remember one National League/Division Two stalwart telling me: "Exeter? That's not speedway." I was talking of 1970 and it certainly was thrilling seeing the racers around the County Ground Times had obviously changed by 1997/98 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woofers 467 Posted July 23, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 10:31 AM, auntie doris said: The recent Kings Lynn matches at Swindon was 18 quid entry attracting a 1000 or so for both meetings. In 2017 over 3000 turned up for a fiver. So does that mean the recent meetings took in £18,000 and in 2017 £15,000.....? If so,which would you rather bank ? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShyTalk 22 Posted July 23, 2019 On the subject of value for money, it should be noted that years ago, with the old second halves,you would get mores races per meeting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djr 145 Posted July 24, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 6:03 PM, woofers said: So does that mean the recent meetings took in £18,000 and in 2017 £15,000.....? If so,which would you rather bank ? Gate money isn't everything though, if 3000 people buy a burger/cup of tea / programme etc. you might well end up with more money to bank than if 1000 people did the same. Also how many of the 1000 people paying £18 would pick and choose meetings due to the price, but would attend more at £5 admission ? At £18 how many people with a family would go on there own, but would take the family with them if it was £5 admission ? its not easy getting the right balance on admission prices 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
auntie doris 2,342 Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 3000 buying progs, merchandise, parking, etc., much better atmosphere it were. 12 quid is about right. Edited July 24, 2019 by auntie doris 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, djr said: Gate money isn't everything though, if 3000 people buy a burger/cup of tea / programme etc. you might well end up with more money to bank than if 1000 people did the same. Also how many of the 1000 people paying £18 would pick and choose meetings due to the price, but would attend more at £5 admission ? At £18 how many people with a family would go on there own, but would take the family with them if it was £5 admission ? its not easy getting the right balance on admission prices The problem with cost reduction is it is a huge financial gamble. You are relying on substantial additional numbers turning up and there's absolutely no guarantee that they will. In addition, they also have to like what they see enough to come back again and again and again............. I have never seen an advocate of price reductions who is so confident that it will work that they will put their own money up to back it, and its very easy to gamble with another persons bank account. I can recall a post some years ago referring to Belle Vue dropping the price to £10 and getting a much increased attendance. They did the same the next week and the crowd figure dropped. By the third week they were back to usual crowd numbers and over the three weeks they lost money when compared to charging full price. The Lakeside free meeting held a few years ago (when thousands turned up) shows that there could well be a market for speedway, but I understand why no promoter is willing to cut prices in the hope of attracting it. Edited July 25, 2019 by Halifaxtiger 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fortythirtyeight 840 Posted July 26, 2019 On 25 July 2019 at 12:51 PM, Halifaxtiger said: The problem with cost reduction is it is a huge financial gamble. You are relying on substantial additional numbers turning up and there's absolutely no guarantee that they will. In addition, they also have to like what they see enough to come back again and again and again............. I have never seen an advocate of price reductions who is so confident that it will work that they will put their own money up to back it, and its very easy to gamble with another persons bank account. I can recall a post some years ago referring to Belle Vue dropping the price to £10 and getting a much increased attendance. They did the same the next week and the crowd figure dropped. By the third week they were back to usual crowd numbers and over the three weeks they lost money when compared to charging full price. The Lakeside free meeting held a few years ago (when thousands turned up) shows that there could well be a market for speedway, but I understand why no promoter is willing to cut prices in the hope of attracting it. Sheffield ran a ' free entry' meeting and over 2 thousand turned up, the very next meeting back to normal 6-700 level. Big ' free ' crowd does not mean more income in anything especially if the club does not run the food franchise ( as many don't) . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites