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Midland Red

Value for money

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3 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Sheffield ran a ' free entry' meeting and over 2 thousand turned up, the very next meeting back to normal 6-700 level. 

Big ' free ' crowd does not mean more income in anything especially if the club does not run the food franchise ( as many don't)  .

 

I recall that the Oxford promotion received nothing from the bar takings during its last years of operation.

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10 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I recall that the Oxford promotion received nothing from the bar takings during its last years of operation.

Why should Oxford have cash from bar takings? They were only tenants for speedway racing. The  stadium would have employed their own bar staff and sold items that they had initially paid for. It was the same as I recall at Wimbledon. Usual business practice as I see it TBH.

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5 minutes ago, gustix said:

Why should Oxford have cash from bar takings? They were only tenants for speedway racing. The  stadium would have employed their own bar staff and sold items that they had initially paid for. It was the same as I recall at Wimbledon. Usual business practice as I see it TBH.

When Cowley was promoted and owned by Northern Sports the bar and catering takings were all part of the deal (as well as the sponsorship from local brewery 'Halls') but all this was lost when the promotion operated under different landlords when Northern Sports went into receivership.

Edited by steve roberts

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On 7/25/2019 at 12:51 PM, Halifaxtiger said:

 

I have never seen an advocate of price reductions who is so confident that it will work that they will put their own money up to back it, and its very easy to gamble with another persons bank account.

 

I can guarantee you have in almost every business going... just speedway seems to think every normal rule that applies is different for it.

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8 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

I can guarantee you have in almost every business going... just speedway seems to think every normal rule that applies is different for it.

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific and said that I have never seen an advocate of speedway entry price reductions who is so confident that they will work that they will put up their own money to back it.

Speedway is indeed different : while I am certain that some who believe in price reductions in business will back them  - we see it often enough after all - that simply does not apply to those who have an identical view regarding speedway entry prices.  

The simple truth is that a cut in prices is a massive financial gamble, and its one that those who support it are only prepared to take if it risks others money, not their own. 

The day that someone who believes in price reduction puts up their own capital to ensure against potential losses is the day I will take their argument seriously. 

 

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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

When Cowley was promoted and owned by Northern Sports the bar and catering takings were all part of the deal (as well as the sponsorship from local brewery 'Halls') but all this was lost when the promotion operated under different landlords when Northern Sports went into receivership.

What an incredible -IMO stupid - act by Northern Sports. Almost too hard to comprehend. That means they also paid for all the stock that was sold. And on the basis mentioned paid the bar staff as well?

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2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific and said that I have never seen an advocate of speedway entry price reductions who is so confident that they will work that they will put up their own money to back it.

Speedway is indeed different : while I am certain that some who believe in price reductions in business will back them  - we see it often enough after all - that simply does not apply to those who have an identical view regarding speedway entry prices.  

The simple truth is that a cut in prices is a massive financial gamble, and its one that those who support it are only prepared to take if it risks others money, not their own. 

The day that someone who believes in price reduction puts up their own capital to ensure against potential losses is the day I will take their argument seriously. 

 

Speedway is not different, it just keeps telling itself it is, ignoring successful business tactics employed by all manners of businesses (including entertainment) and wonders why it continues to struggle.

Your comments are indicative of why the sport is in the mess it is in the UK. 

Anyone with the slightest semblance of business knowledge would tell you that continually cutting the quality, whilst increasing the price will result in only one thing... and so it has come to pass.

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6 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Speedway is not different, it just keeps telling itself it is, ignoring successful business tactics employed by all manners of businesses (including entertainment) and wonders why it continues to struggle.

Your comments are indicative of why the sport is in the mess it is in the UK. 

Anyone with the slightest semblance of business knowledge would tell you that continually cutting the quality, whilst increasing the price will result in only one thing... and so it has come to pass.

To my knowledge, cutting prices has been tried. As I have indicated earlier, Belle Vue did it and it failed. Under John Anderson, Berwick tried it. They didn't continue, so presumably it didn't work there either.

If its a 'successful business tactic' why is that no-one can be found to put the money up to guarantee any loss just in case cutting prices doesn't work ? 

After all, according to you - and others - you can't lose. 

Care to put your money up to prove you are right ? Thought not :D

Belle Vue costs £18 to go in. Cutting the cost to £15 - which according to at least one poster isn't enough - would require an increase in gates of 20%.Cutting it to £12 - one figure mentioned - would require an increase of 50%. 

Is that realistic, especially in the short term ? 

Your comments are indicative of why some promoters regard the BSF as a haven for 'keyboard commandos' who  have all the ideas but won't risk a penny themselves. In this case, they're right.

You are right when you say that cutting quality and increasing price can be disastrous. Decreasing the price and increasing the quality can be equally so.

 

Edited by Halifaxtiger
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cityrebel said this on another thread " The British public don't want to go to speedway anymore. Cheaper admission would only be a short term fix. Once all of us old fogies have died off, its days as a professional sport will be over."

And I believe that is correct. It is not an attractive leisure activity worth spending your money on - increasingly this century it is either invisible to the general public or uncool. When newbies do get there they find out that only 2 or 3 minutes out of two hours plus, is exciting enough to merit the word and that "races" are very rarely that. NSS excepted. Reduced prices might attract some fallen by the wayside diehards but it is as cityrebel says not at the heart of the problem,

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10 hours ago, gustix said:

What an incredible -IMO stupid - act by Northern Sports. Almost too hard to comprehend. That means they also paid for all the stock that was sold. And on the basis mentioned paid the bar staff as well?

Surely no different than any other business venture whereby the whole operation is owned by a single company running and managing every aspect of its business as was the case with Northern Sports? Unfortunately it was their Garden Centre empire that collapsed which caused the eventual sale of Cowley Stadium...the speedway side of the business was ticking along quite nicely before the pay restraint caused issues.

Edited by steve roberts

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5 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

To my knowledge, cutting prices has been tried. As I have indicated earlier, Belle Vue did it and it failed. Under John Anderson, Berwick tried it. They didn't continue, so presumably it didn't work there either.

If its a 'successful business tactic' why is that no-one can be found to put the money up to guarantee any loss just in case cutting prices doesn't work ? 

After all, according to you - and others - you can't lose. 

Care to put your money up to prove you are right ? Thought not :D

Belle Vue costs £18 to go in. Cutting the cost to £15 - which according to at least one poster isn't enough - would require an increase in gates of 20%.Cutting it to £12 - one figure mentioned - would require an increase of 50%. 

Is that realistic, especially in the short term ? 

Your comments are indicative of why some promoters regard the BSF as a haven for 'keyboard commandos' who  have all the ideas but won't risk a penny themselves. In this case, they're right.

You are right when you say that cutting quality and increasing price can be disastrous. Decreasing the price and increasing the quality can be equally so.

 

I work within the tourim industry and all sorts of incentives have been adopted in an attempt to generate more income. Schemes such as allowing those aged 15 and under free entry (as long as with a paying adult) but, alas, it hasn't worked...infact the scheme is about to be dropped due to lost revenue. Where I work the admission fee is constantly being reviewed and, dare I say, increases are the result to help off-set the loses.

Living in York there is so much competion as regards attractions and it's a constant juggle to try and encourage visitors who only have so much to spend. Family tickets, free entry for twelve months (which is more often than not a trade off...only those living relatively locally are able to utilise the scheme) as well as other initiatives but they are continually under  constant review and invariably admission prices are raised as a result.

Edited by steve roberts

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15 hours ago, gustix said:

Why should Oxford have cash from bar takings? They were only tenants for speedway racing. The  stadium would have employed their own bar staff and sold items that they had initially paid for. It was the same as I recall at Wimbledon. Usual business practice as I see it TBH.

 

15 hours ago, steve roberts said:

When Cowley was promoted and owned by Northern Sports the bar and catering takings were all part of the deal (as well as the sponsorship from local brewery 'Halls') but all this was lost when the promotion operated under different landlords when Northern Sports went into receivership.

 

3 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Surely no different than any other business venture whereby the whole operation is owned by a single company running and managing every aspect of its business as was the case with Northern Sports? Unfortunately it was their Garden Centre empire that collapsed which caused the eventual sale of Cowley Stadium...the speedway side of the business was ticking along quite nicely before the pay restraint caused issues.

I now understand how the speedway had financial benefit from bar takings etc. I did to fully understand that at the time debated the complete operations at Cowley Stadium aka Oxford Speedway were administered by one company. All logical to me now. Thank you for the explanation Steve Roberts.

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Reducing prices/Doing special offers, is a fundamental part of any business..

And is used to increase customer footfall or sales unit volume depending on what you are offering..

The key to its success being of course that it overall delivers more profit..

But. This can only be done though if it is part of a bigger long term customer service, increased product quality, value for money package..

That is where Speedway clubs who do 'specials' fail as there is simply no clear short, medium and long term objective to doing it...

It is very much a 'for one night only' deal without using this 'one night' as they should..

ie as a (potentially) loss making/break even at best investment in a much more detailed and wider marketing strategy, where by that nights 'captured market' is engaged for all it is worth to try and gain those repeat visits so fundamental to success..

Putting out the same old, same old on these 'specials' nights, as so many do, will only reinforce why some ex fans in attendance left in the first place and mean no further visits down the line..

If you reduce your price then ensure you showcase your offer and WOW your customers with your overall service and operating model..

Otherwise you might as well not bother doing it..

 

 

 

Edited by mikebv
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Spot on, if I no longer think £18 is vfm so I stop going am I really going to become a regular again Just because the price is reduced but the entertainment on offer is still rubbish. This doesn't apply to me, I'm a Heathen who did an eight hour round journey to watch the Wolves at Ipswich on Thursday but I'm sure it applies to some who stay away now

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I have stopped going to Somerset this season for the following reasons. They put prices up, they stopped pensioners concessions, they dropped a league and they cleared nearly the whole team out  (including a world champion) year after year.  It generates no fan loyalty to the "team" because it isn't going to be the team next year. You never get the same team out week after week because of injuries and R/R is a joke. Some riders (like now) decide that "British speedway is too hard" and bale out. Tish! It will take a lot to get me and my friends back (sorry Debbie but you have got it wrong) and I still happily watch good racing on the TV which is better value than going to my home track. Shame but there it is.

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