GP Challenge Final (Gorican) - 24/08/19

[OveFundinFan 4,137]

2 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

If you're a GP rider and doing the qualifiers as your plan B . you'd still be doing your best to get a top 8 place till the end of the final GP as you wouldn't know you already had a place for next season.

Didnt see Zagar nor Iversen taking it easy last Saturday in the GP, even though they already in nexts years series. I think pride comes into it. All the GP riders would rather qualify through this years series rather then the Challenge, though that is certainly a tough way to qualify. The likes of Tai didnt have to come back so soon this year, he will get a wild card, but pride makes him ride and get as many points as possible. 

[chunky 6,085]

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Didnt see Zagar nor Iversen taking it easy last Saturday in the GP, even though they already in nexts years series. I think pride comes into it. All the GP riders would rather qualify through this years series rather then the Challenge, though that is certainly a tough way to qualify. The likes of Tai didnt have to come back so soon this year, he will get a wild card, but pride makes him ride and get as many points as possible. 

It's funny, but so many people don't take pride into it. I know professional sport is very different to what it was - money is far more important now than it used to be - but for the VERY top figures in sport (particularly individual sport), pride is - and always will be - one of the keys to success.

Steve

[Triple.H. 1,981]

Maybe now that plan B has worked the shackles are off so they're riding with less pressure. They've both been pretty under par all season but all of a sudden they now ride to their ability

[False dawn 2,294]

27 minutes ago, Triple.H. said:

Maybe now that plan B has worked the shackles are off so they're riding with less pressure. They've both been pretty under par all season but all of a sudden they now ride to their ability

I think I agree. But doesn't that support the argument that the Challenge should be after the GP season?

The more current GP riders that take part in the plan B route, the more devalued the Challenge becomes. I know we still get 3 qualifiers from the Challenge, come what may. But we might have to go well down the finishing order to see who that is. And worse still, we won't know who those 3 are, on the night or potentially for many weeks. Surely the Challenge route was set up to provide a focused route for the top three riders to get into the GP series? Not as a safety net for riders in the middle and lower order of the current series.

[OveFundinFan 4,137]

1 hour ago, False dawn said:

I think I agree. But doesn't that support the argument that the Challenge should be after the GP season?

The more current GP riders that take part in the plan B route, the more devalued the Challenge becomes. I know we still get 3 qualifiers from the Challenge, come what may. But we might have to go well down the finishing order to see who that is. And worse still, we won't know who those 3 are, on the night or potentially for many weeks. Surely the Challenge route was set up to provide a focused route for the top three riders to get into the GP series? Not as a safety net for riders in the middle and lower order of the current series.

Surely you want the best riders in the GP series.   If that means 3 from the current GP series comes 1,2,3 in the Challenge then they are showing they are part of the best available.  Other then that you not getting the best in the woeld racing.   Which do you really want????

[Triple.H. 1,981]

If you had it the day after the final GP.

9 -15 from the GP plus the top 9 from the qualifiers.

Winner takes all. Well top 3

[Mark 1,497]

3 hours ago, False dawn said:

I think I agree. But doesn't that support the argument that the Challenge should be after the GP season?

The more current GP riders that take part in the plan B route, the more devalued the Challenge becomes. I know we still get 3 qualifiers from the Challenge, come what may. But we might have to go well down the finishing order to see who that is. And worse still, we won't know who those 3 are, on the night or potentially for many weeks. Surely the Challenge route was set up to provide a focused route for the top three riders to get into the GP series? Not as a safety net for riders in the middle and lower order of the current series.

Top 3 in the GP Challenge qualify and Zagar, Iversen proved they are the best of the rest and comfortably top 15 in the world.

[False dawn 2,294]

3 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Surely you want the best riders in the GP series.   If that means 3 from the current GP series comes 1,2,3 in the Challenge then they are showing they are part of the best available.  Other then that you not getting the best in the world racing.   Which do you really want????

I guess I'll do what most politicians are doing just now, I'll tell you what I don't want. I don't want riders coasting through the back half of the GP season, already knowing that they have a guaranteed place in next year's series.  

[Ghostwalker 1,858]

3 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Surely you want the best riders in the GP series.   If that means 3 from the current GP series comes 1,2,3 in the Challenge then they are
showing they are part of the best available.  Other then that you not getting the best in the woeld racing.   Which do you really want????

If Aspgren had qualified would you have considered him to be better then Fricke or Zagar or Iversen or Michelsen?
Would you consider Craig Cook a better rider then Piotr Pawlicki?. Cook finished 4th in GPC last year while Pawlicki finished 6th?

And how do you determine who the 15 best in the world are?

[Gavan 5,049]

6 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

Maybe now that plan B has worked the shackles are off so they're riding with less pressure. They've both been pretty under par all season but all of a sudden they now ride to their ability

If im honest i dont believe they have ridden under par

Neither Iversen or Zagar would have been in my top 8 at the start of the season. Im not even sure id have had them 9th and 10th where they are now.

I think riders like Madsen and Vaculik are higher then i would have had them and riders like Doyle and Tai are lower.....

The only riders i might have had behind Iversen and Zagar would have been Lindback and Kolodziej......and being honest possibly Madsen and Vaculik maybe Laguta

 

[RPNY 608]

45 minutes ago, False dawn said:

I guess I'll do what most politicians are doing just now, I'll tell you what I don't want. I don't want riders coasting through the back half of the GP season, already knowing that they have a guaranteed place in next year's series.  

They qualified fair and square - however this I very much agree with.

[OveFundinFan 4,137]

So, if Zagar and Iversen were coasting last Saturday in Teterow I cant wait to see them flying.

[False dawn 2,294]

49 minutes ago, False dawn said:

I guess I'll do what most politicians are doing just now, I'll tell you what I don't want. I don't want riders coasting through the back half of the GP season, already knowing that they have a guaranteed place in next year's series.  

3 minutes ago, RPNY said:

They qualified fair and square - however this I very much agree with.

This is not a personal vendetta. I have nothing against NKI and Matej Zagar. Their world ranking and if they are in the current top 15 in the world is not the issue. The GP Challenge is supposed to be about giving 3 riders, not currently in the series, a route into next years WC. Is that wrong? Current GP riders have 8 places to shoot at, and if through exceptional circumstances they miss out, a further chance of being given a wildcard.

8 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

So, if Zagar and Iversen were coasting last Saturday in Teterow I cant wait to see them flying.

I refer you to where this discussion started.....

7 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

Maybe now that plan B has worked the shackles are off so they're riding with less pressure

 

[OveFundinFan 4,137]

4 minutes ago, False dawn said:

This is not a personal vendetta. I have nothing against NKI and Matej Zagar. Their world ranking and if they are in the current top 15 in the world is not the issue. The GP Challenge is supposed to be about giving 3 riders, not currently in the series, a route into next years WC. Is that wrong? Current GP riders have 8 places to shoot at, and if through exceptional circumstances they miss out, a further chance of being given a 

Obviously your statement IS wrong, otherwise current GP riders would not be allowed to enter the qualifiers for the Challenge in the first place.

[False dawn 2,294]

27 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Obviously your statement IS wrong, otherwise current GP riders would not be allowed to enter the qualifiers for the Challenge in the first place.

I was, of course, trying to invoke an opinion on how you viewed the current Challenge purpose. That is, it's intended purpose rather than what the rules allow. I guess I'm arguing that under it's current set up / timing, it is not fit for purpose. The GP series allows for the top 8 to progress to the following year with the addition of the wildcards. Along side that we have a process to encourage the best "other" three in the World into the series. My point is, that having a parachute, mid series, for riders that won't otherwise qualify, seems to be against the spirit and intention of the Challenge route.