1948 Queries

[BOBBATH 466]

Have to part ways with you on this one gustix. I think its absolutely great of Dave, Norbold, BL65 et al to do this-to me historical accuracy is very important, so why not try and get it right . Just to let these folks know I really appreciate their efforts and to keep up the good work. Cheers Bob

[iris123 20,969]

5 hours ago, gustix said:

 

I don't decry the efforts of Dave Allen in his task or the fact there are BSF members prepared to assist him. If he enjoys all this research good luck to him in his efforts. I just cannot appreciate the worth of it all in regard to an area of British sport that diminishes year on year in regard to general interest.  How many speedway supporters are there who have a genuine interest for example '...who finished third in heat five of the New Cross v Harringay match in May 1947...'? And when Dave Allen's task is completed where are they likely to be viewed? But again - good luck to him in his chosen and dedicated task.

To be quite frank I doubt I am alone in not seeing the worth in about 80% of your posts. And I am trying to be fair here. I’d even go so far as to say the forum improves when you stop posting, somewhat

[norbold 7,106]

13 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

Have to part ways with you on this one gustix. I think its absolutely great of Dave, Norbold, BL65 et al to do this-to me historical accuracy is very important, so why not try and get it right . Just to let these folks know I really appreciate their efforts and to keep up the good work. Cheers Bob

Thanks, Bob. Good of you to mention me, but really this has been mostly down to Dave and BL65. But I certainly agree with your sentiments and I certainly applaud all the work those two have done and are doing to sort out all the anomalies so that we have an accurate history of our sport.

[iris123 20,969]

It is quite ironic really the complaint about peoplewanting correct historical stats comes from someone who had an infamous thread where a couple of his aliases were chatting to each other propogating the myth that Hoskins started the sport in Maitland

[Guest]

5 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

Have to part ways with you on this one gustix. I think its absolutely great of Dave, Norbold, BL65 et al to do this-to me historical accuracy is very important, so why not try and get it right . Just to let these folks know I really appreciate their efforts and to keep up the good work. Cheers Bob

 

5 hours ago, norbold said:

Thanks, Bob. Good of you to mention me, but really this has been mostly down to Dave and BL65. But I certainly agree with your sentiments and I certainly applaud all the work those two have done and are doing to sort out all the anomalies so that we have an accurate history of our sport.

I don't detract in anyway that if a person wants to present details of past speedway results that is their right to do so. All I am trying to highlight is why when overall interest in British speedway is albeit sadly diminishing. How many speedway followers want accurate results for say the 1947 season? Very few IMO. I would estimate that most of those who use the BSF are only interested in modern times. Again if Dave Allan wants to create accurate results for past seasons 'all strength to his elbow' for that. But as I see it the majority of BSF users only want to know about present time speedway and its happenings.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Guest

[iris123 20,969]

I’d imagine even less are interested in Stock Cars, but it never stops you. Anyway this section is specifically for years gone by. Anyone not interested will just avoid it. 

Easy 

[chunky 6,090]

28 minutes ago, gustix said:

 

I don't detract in anyway that if a person wants to present details of past speedway results that is their right to do so. All I am trying to highlight is why when overall interest in British speedway is albeit sadly diminishing. How many speedway followers want accurate results for say the 1947 season? Very few IMO. I would estimate that most of those who use the BSF are only interested in modern times. Again if Dave Allen wants to create accurate results for past seasons 'all strength to his elbow' for that. But as I see it the majority of BSF users only want to know about present time speedway and its happenings.

So what you are saying is that, if it's important to YOU, it is important; if it ISN'T important to you, then it's not worthwhile? In other words, you think people should be interested in your "memories", but not in accurate records of the sport?

Does it matter if the majority of BSF users are only interested in present-time speedway? As long as they get the info that they want, then fine, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us - and there are quite a number of us - should be deprived of discussions here. That is why we have a "Years Gone By" forum.

With ANY sport, I think that it is wonderful to have an accurate record of things, whether it is results, names, rules, or whatever. Anyway, if you are that worried about "majority vs minority", and that the majority should be the only ones to get what they want, then there shouldn't even be a bloody British Speedway Forum!

I truly appreciate and value the efforts of those who attempt to provide detailed records...

Steve

[norbold 7,106]

1 hour ago, gustix said:

 

I would estimate that most of those who use the BSF are only interested in modern times...as I see it the majority of BSF users only want to know about present time speedway and its happenings.

On the top page of the "Years Gone By" section of this Forum, there are no fewer than 10 new threads started by you.

[chunky 6,090]

44 minutes ago, norbold said:

On the top page of the "Years Gone By" section of this Forum, there are no fewer than 10 new threads started by you.

  

[iris123 20,969]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

On the top page of the "Years Gone By" section of this Forum, there are no fewer than 10 new threads started by you.

Most withut a reply, unless gustix replies to himself. So maybe he does have a point, and nobody is interested ? at least in what he posts !!!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

On the top page of the "Years Gone By" section of this Forum, there are no fewer than 10 new threads started by you.

Gosh! I have been busy. Most of them are feature type items that do not in any case require a response because these items are retrospective memory feature-type pieces rather than debatable subjects.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Guest

[BL65 656]

Points to consider

It has been estimated that most of those who use the BSF are only interested in modern times.  I imagine there is no data to quantify or substantiate this view.  However, is that relevant?  Is Dave Allan checking and compiling information in order to eventually share only with members of the forum?  Maybe the purpose behind the research which he is doing is to tidy up and add to information already compiled, or in the process of being accumulated elsewhere, i.e. on the Speedway Researcher website.  Those people who look at the information on the Speedway Researcher website are surely not confined to membership of this forum.  I wonder what proportion the members of the forum amount to out of all of those people who have a current or past interest in the sport and do (or may at some point in the future) refer to the Speedway Researcher website.  Also, the Speedway Researcher has the stated aim of ‘Promoting Research into the History of Speedway and Dirt Track Racing’.  It covers the sport from its introduction in the UK until the present time.  The website will, therefore, no doubt be of interest to a proportion of current followers of the sport, even if only in some instances for very recent years.  It is important to observe that what happens today becomes tomorrow’s ‘history’. 

Regarding the accuracy of detail, if something is worth doing then it is worth doing well.  If nothing is recorded for posterity in an easily accessible format purely because it is ‘too old’ then, taking extreme examples, future followers of the sport would have a less clear idea of the number of times an individual won titles or a team won cups or championships.  Future participants could have less-clear ideas as to how much they needed to achieve if they aspired to become more successful than past competitors.  Debates often take place about whether a rider was better than a rival, or which rider achieved more in the course of their career.  Throughout its history the sport has been founded on numbers and statistics, whether match points, individual meetings where qualifiers or winners have to accumulate most points at some stage, or regarding averages.  Long before the system of points limits for team building purposes was introduced, averages were used to determine which riders would be at reserve or named as supplementary reserve in a team.  Statistics, whether the number of points scored or averages achieved, allow comparisons to be drawn.  They form a useful basis for reasoned debate.  The more accurate the recorded information is the more likely it is that reasoned opinion can be supported by interpretation of fact.

It could be interpreted that there appears to be an isolated misconception that Dave Allan is merely sharing information, where he has noted inaccuracies or absence of detail, for the purpose of ‘educating’ forum members, whereas it is inescapable that what he is actually doing is seeking the support of forum members (through the designated ‘Years Gone By’ section) in attempting to correct such inaccuracies and obtain the required information.

Edited August 30, 2019 by BL65

[chunky 6,090]

39 minutes ago, gustix said:

Gosh! I have been busy. Most of them are feature type items that do not in any case require a response because these items are retrospective memory feature-type pieces rather than debatable subjects.

So, judging by these comments of yours, can I deduce that :

1) You really have no idea of what you are or aren't posting?

2) Memory feature-type pieces are of more interest - and perhaps more valuable - than debatable subjects that require a response?

[chunky 6,090]

31 minutes ago, BL65 said:

Points to consider

1) It has been estimated that most of those who use the BSF are only interested in modern times.  I imagine there is no data to quantify or substantiate this view.  However, is that relevant?

2) Those people who look at the information on the Speedway Researcher website are surely not confined to membership of this forum.  Also, the Speedway Researcher has the stated aim of ‘Promoting Research into the History of Speedway and Dirt Track Racing’.  It covers the sport from its introduction in the UK until the present time. 

3) The more accurate the recorded information is the more likely it is that reasoned opinion can be supported by interpretation of fact.

4) what he is actually doing is seeking the support of forum members (through the designated ‘Years Gone By’ section) in attempting to correct such inaccuracies and obtain the required information.

 

1) To gustix, apparently...

2) Does gustix consider that relevant?

3) Does gustix agree?

4) Does gustix consider that relevant?

We are seemingly dealing with an individual who :

5) Thinks that people are only interested in modern speedway, yet he starts more threads on the "Years Gone By Forum" than the way of us combined.

6) Has no interest in, or real knowledge of, modern speedway himself, yet believes his views on the subject are valid.

7) Criticises others for digressions within a thread (although the digressions are invariably speedway-related), yet frequently introduces non-speedway items (stock cars, flat-track etc) into a thread when they are completely irrelevant.

8) Cannot even spell Dave Allan's name correctly.

Steve

Edited August 30, 2019 by chunky

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, chunky said:

So, judging by these comments of yours, can I deduce that :

1) You really have no idea of what you are or aren't posting?

2) Memory feature-type pieces are of more interest - and perhaps more valuable - than debatable subjects that require a response?

Go for 2) chunky!!!