norbold 7,106 Posted September 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, racers and royals said: He won`t be if Vaculik finishes outside the top 8 That doesn't seem likely at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted September 11, 2019 On 9/9/2019 at 4:46 PM, Mark said: Doyle is 11th but he should get a card. Is he? I am sure the table I looked at showed him 8th. Will check in a moment, but yes, I agree on card. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted September 11, 2019 On 9/10/2019 at 10:55 AM, Gavan said: Im not Hancocks biggest fan but i want the best riders in there....age is irrelevant ...and after the career he has had then i would think it justified to give him a spot He may not come back or want to do the GPs, I don't know. But if he does, I don't think we can justify giving him a card based on him having an amazing career, we have to look forwards not backwards. It's my opinion that his age is relevant after a year out, look how Tai struggled after his return after just a few weeks out, both fitness and equipment. If his age was not relevant, the lead commentator would not be banging on about it all last season. I don't have the answer, but I do not think giving him a wildcard is right without him earning it now (not based on the past 20 years). You're only as good as your next game, and you can't live on past glories as every opposition football fan likes to remind us Forest fans (we were twice European Champions for those that don't know)! Like I say, I don't have a 'fair' answer, but I have never been a fan of wildcards, I would much rather a rider earned their place in the championship. So maybe now is the time that the GP explored that, and my suggestion would be a second GP challenge. The idea being at the start of the new season, a second chance to rightfully 'earn' a GP place is made available through a second GP challenge, with the bottom 7 from the GP series of the previous season, and the top 6 non-qualifiers from the first GP challenge the previous season and then allowing the GP series to give 3 wildcards to riders who for various reasons missed the cut the previous season, or top youngsters they feel would add to the SGP. The top 4 from this second GP challenge qualify for that season's GP series. This gives all riders a second bite of the cherry, and gives the SGP the option to award wildcards and allows those wildcards to 'earn' their place in the racing elite, to show they have the ability to compete. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted September 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, TheReturn said: Is he? I am sure the table I looked at showed him 8th. Will check in a moment, but yes, I agree on card. My mistake, on the SGP home page, there is row of Instagram post images which shows Doyle 8th. I should have realised that was an old table, sorry for getting that wrong. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark 1,497 Posted September 11, 2019 23 minutes ago, TheReturn said: Is he? I am sure the table I looked at showed him 8th. Will check in a moment, but yes, I agree on card. https://www.speedwaygp.com/standings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,552 Posted September 13, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 12:34 PM, TheReturn said: I don't have the answer, but I do not think giving him a wildcard is right without him earning it now (not based on the past 20 years). It's based on last year, the most recent we can go with, not 20 years ago. No one is saying it should be based on 20 years ago. 2018, 5th place, 7 points from 3rd, four times finallist. Still a prominent contender. Comfortably in the world top 15. End of. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted September 13, 2019 9 hours ago, falcace said: 2018, 5th place, 7 points from 3rd, four times finallist. Still a prominent contender. Comfortably in the world top 15. End of. End of? Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryW 1,178 Posted September 13, 2019 When it comes to Greg, I think that Phil Rising said it best a few years ago when talking about a possible wildcard for a different rider, who was much younger than Greg.... "Look to the future. ****** is a lovely guy but frankly has had his time and does he really get the pulses racing..." As far as I can see, this fits perfectly for Greg... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Doctor... 1,478 Posted September 14, 2019 Who was the *****. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iand 133 Posted September 14, 2019 9 hours ago, TheReturn said: End of? Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. Tai 19pts off 8th place and as you say has only missed 2 rounds this year. Only averaging 8 a round so form wise has had a poor season, not top 8 standard but will surely get a wild card next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,552 Posted September 18, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 12:11 AM, TheReturn said: End of? Right up there with people who end a discussion with 'fact'! 5th place in 2018 doesn't mean anything. Tai was 1st place last season and currently languishing in 14th and he only missed a couple of rounds. Let's be honest, he was never in contention in 2018. A wildcard would be a commercial rather than sporting decision I suspect. The first - and by far - most important consideration regarding riders who take part in the World Championship is "Do we have the world's top 15 riders?". Anything less than that as the primary consideration undermines its credibility. Dismiss 5th if you like, but it's well within the top 15 and were it not for this year's sad exceptional circumstances, there's every indication from his most recent form at league and World Championship level, he would still be up at the sharper end of the competition. If you can make a credible case that there are 15 riders in the world better than Greg Hancock, by all means have a crack. Make that case. I'd love to see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, falcace said: If you can make a credible case that there are 15 riders in the world better than Greg Hancock, by all means have a crack He's not ridden in over a year, so there's no credible case to suggest he is capable of still being in the top 15 in the world as things stand right now. He might be that good still, but we simply so not know. A wildcard can NOT be justified taking time out and age into account. Still, I see Monster Energy have flown him over to Cardiff...doesn't hurt to remind BSI how popular Hancock is with some. Edited September 19, 2019 by TheReturn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,552 Posted September 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, TheReturn said: He's not ridden in over a year, so there's no credible case to suggest he is capable of still being in the top 15 in the world as things stand right now. He might be that good still, but we simply so not know. A wildcard can NOT be justified taking time out and age into account. When you assume....etc. Because of his age, I assumed 10 years ago, he'd be long gone from the SGP. I was wrong. I assumed anyone deep into their 40s would no longer to be able to compete at the top level. I was wrong. If you base your assumptions (and you have) on speedway history and other riders, you are making a mistake. To repeat myself, there is no other rider in history doing what he has done at his age. He doesn't fit into any conventional template or graph you - or anyone else - might have in mind. Is he in the top 15 riders in the world still? If you don't believe he is, then I'll challenge you again, make the case for 15 riders being better than him. Name them. Make the case for Antonio Lindback, Janusz Kolodziej, Robert Lambert etc. If you truly believe he is no longer in the world's top 15, it should be very easy for you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hackett 220 Posted September 19, 2019 Woffinden Doyle Hancock - 1. If he doesn't retire this weekend. Laguta / Dudek / Zagar - depending on who drops out of the top 8 .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted September 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, Hackett said: Woffinden Doyle Hancock - 1. If he doesn't retire this weekend. Laguta / Dudek / Zagar - depending on who drops out of the top 8 .... Zagar has already qualified, via the Challenge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
