Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted September 16, 2019 2 hours ago, mikebv said: I would suggest the biggest % drop off in fans was from around 1995 to 2005.. Anecdotal evidence as it is but.. I stopped around 1995 and started again ten years later and was amazed at how crowds had dropped off.. And in that time Britain had a World Champ and all the world's best still rode here which suggests the level of rider isn't such a huge fan attraction.. I would suggest that the % drop in the past five years to ten years is way lower than the one for the timeline I mentioned.. Admittedly it is because crowds have been generally crap but it shows that the weakened product still attracts the die hards in reasonable numbers which can only be a positive for the sport if it wants to reduce costs by weakening again.. Bottom line is, you can't spend what you haven't got and most tracks look like they don't have much spare from what they pay out now. Therefore finding six grand a night (or maybe even more given they will have an expectation based on earnings elsewhere?) for two World Class No1 riders would be a 'tad' difficult I reckon.. What you said about the crowds really dropping off Mike is exactly right i believe in yesteryear getting a Mauger,Briggs,Olsen, turn up at your track really made a difference.Yet now in recent years even Woffinden at Wolves did not make that much difference on the gate and the extra fans money you did get soon got swallowed up by paying his wages. The sport has to go back to basics pay within your means and try and put a show on that everyone can enjoy.Bringing the big boys back in this climate is not the answer in my experience i can enjoy a NL meeting just as much as a Premiership meeting. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
False dawn 2,298 Posted September 16, 2019 Just to be clear. The discussions here about top riders, budget constraints and falling crowds is all very interesting. But Stoke closed because the stadium was sold from under them. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Great Central 226 Posted September 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, False dawn said: Just to be clear. The discussions here about top riders, budget constraints and falling crowds is all very interesting. But Stoke closed because the stadium was sold from under them. False dawn that is spot on, and you can understand in a way why so little was spent on the stadium if the lease they had allowed the owners to do this. Not much incentive to spend any money knowing that it could be snatched away at short notice. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adonis 1,454 Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Great Central said: False dawn that is spot on, and you can understand in a way why so little was spent on the stadium if the lease they had allowed the owners to do this. Not much incentive to spend any money knowing that it could be snatched away at short notice. Even if they had any money to spend . even at £10 a point 90 points is £900 out of the takings . then pay a ref ,stadium renbt . ambulance ,insurance . equipment ,shale , and maintenance .doesn't leave a lot of change on gates of 150 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, False dawn said: Just to be clear. The discussions here about top riders, budget constraints and falling crowds is all very interesting. But Stoke closed because the stadium was sold from under them. I understand the sale of the stadium was known for some time. At one time the stock car promoter made a £1million offer for the venue but it did not match what the owners felt it was worth. 2 hours ago, Great Central said: False dawn that is spot on, and you can understand in a way why so little was spent on the stadium if the lease they had allowed the owners to do this. Not much incentive to spend any money knowing that it could be snatched away at short notice. How co-operative in regard to upgrading the stadium as needed were the speedway and stock car promotions? 1 hour ago, adonis said: Even if they had any money to spend . even at £10 a point 90 points is £900 out of the takings . then pay a ref ,stadium renbt . ambulance ,insurance . equipment ,shale , and maintenance .doesn't leave a lot of change on gates of 150 You point out crucial financial data in regard to a speedway meeting and the costs involved. Speedway is quoted as attracting a circa 150 spectators. How many turned up when there was a stock car meeting? Edited September 16, 2019 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adonis 1,454 Posted September 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, gustix said: I understand the sale of the stadium was known for some time. At one time the stock car promoter made a £1million offer for the venue but it did not match what the owners felt it was worth. How co-operative in regard to upgrading the stadium as needed were the speedway and stock car promotions? You point out crucial financial data in regard to a speedway meeting and the costs involved. Speedway is quoted as attracting a circa 150 spectators. How many turned up when there was a stock car meeting? There would be significantly more . and the drivers pay to race of what is usually not great prize money . However If you lived in rented accomodation , would you be likely to finance improvements to the structure for the landlords benefit . same applies to a rented stadium , should think 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, mikebv said: Bottom line is, you can't spend what you haven't got and most tracks look like they don't have much spare from what they pay out now. Therefore finding six grand a night (or maybe even more given they will have an expectation based on earnings elsewhere?) for two World Class No1 riders would be a 'tad' difficult I reckon.. No the bottom line is you can't keep losing fans and not replacing them . cutting the standard has clearly not worked but still it's the same plan the next year .Another 5 clubs will go under by next year and the plan will be the same again .no one talking about world class no 1's thou quite clearly is not a problem for Swindon as the good crowds pay for it . Edited September 16, 2019 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, orion said: No the bottom line is you can't keep losing fans and not replacing them . cutting the standard has clearly not worked but still it's the same plan the next year .Another 5 clubs will go under by next year and the plan will be the same again .no one talking about world class no 1's thou quite clearly is not a problem for Swindon as the good crowds pay for it . You are deluded Swindon up until the playoffs will barely break even, does a sponsor help to pay for Jason ??? The club have made great strides this year under Rosco/ and Lee Kilby and the crowds have been generally very good but there has been a few weeks when they have been lower than they have deserved to be .The NL fixture was a huge disappointment gate wise and people are picking and choosing there meeting's more nowadays but yes you are right the club are going in the right direction. Edited September 17, 2019 by Sidney the robin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teaboy279 1,038 Posted September 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: You are deluded Swindon up until the playoffs will barely break even, does a sponsor help to pay for Jason ??? The club have made great strides this year under Rosco/ and Lee Kilby and the crowds have been generally very good but there has been a few weeks when they have been lower than they have deserved to be .The NL fixture was a huge disappointment gate wise and people are picking and choosing there meeting's more now a days but yes you are right the club are going in the right direction. I think the main reason the NL fixture is not representative of the potential support for it was, challenge matches dont get people excited for thier own riders, barring Anders Rowe the rest of the sprocket team was a select side. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, teaboy279 said: I think the main reason the NL fixture is not representative of the potential support for it was, challenge matches dont get people excited for thier own riders, barring Anders Rowe the rest of the sprocket team was a select side. Totally right and being on a Sunday might of been a hindrance a renowned family day.If i can remember rightly Swindon did have a few meeting's around that time and not everyone has a budget to say stretch to three or four meetings in 20 days.I think the sprocket team could attract 500 regular's but on that day it did not show it i hope Lee Kilby has a rethink on that over the winter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 17, 2019 10 hours ago, orion said: .Another 5 clubs will go under by next year and the plan will be the same again .no one talking about world class no 1's thou quite clearly is not a problem for Swindon as the good crowds pay for it . Ominous and worrying prediction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted September 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: You are deluded Swindon up until the playoffs will barely break even, does a sponsor help to pay for Jason ??? The club have made great strides this year under Rosco/ and Lee Kilby and the crowds have been generally very good but there has been a few weeks when they have been lower than they have deserved to be .The NL fixture was a huge disappointment gate wise and people are picking and choosing there meeting's more now a days but yes you are right the club are going in the right direction. Clubs running two teams in this day and age are never going to make money Sid. It's a good job some do, it helps keep the numbers up in an ever shrinking NL. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted September 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, cityrebel said: Clubs running two teams in this day and age are never going to make money Sid. It's a good job some do, it helps keep the numbers up in an ever shrinking NL. Its certainly difficult to justify running another team in another league and charging a lower admission as a sensible business model as it could be seen a threat to the original team. That said i feel a NL side running on a weekend afternoon would bring in enough to make the venture successful and sustainable. Perhaps a link up with Reading to reintroduce the Racers as the Junior side could be possible? I think the track shape and standard at NL level would provide an excellent level of entertainment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted September 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, cityrebel said: Clubs running two teams in this day and age are never going to make money Sid. It's a good job some do, it helps keep the numbers up in an ever shrinking NL. Regrettably you are right a real shame as i believe the NL has come along way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,637 Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said: Its certainly difficult to justify running another team in another league and charging a lower admission as a sensible business model as it could be seen a threat to the original team. That said i feel a NL side running on a weekend afternoon would bring in enough to make the venture successful and sustainable. Perhaps a link up with Reading to reintroduce the Racers as the Junior side could be possible? I think the track shape and standard at NL level would provide an excellent level of entertainment. That tends to be the worst of both worlds (see Coventry at Leicester last year for example). Too far for more than a handful of Reading fans to travel, but not attractive to Swindon fans as the team is badged as Reading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites