phillwhitewasmad 1,483 Posted March 28, 2021 44 minutes ago, enotian said: In a weakened league You'd expect perhaps Auty, Aarnio and especially Jorgensen to add say a combined 4 points to their starting averages. Then what is the expectation for Palin? 5 points? 6? 7? Then if the 7th rider is a Kennedy or a MacDonald they could add a couple. All of a sudden you're averaging 47 points and doing fine. Don't see it personally the heat leading trio will still be up against riders of the same standard they have been up against for the previous seasons so don't see a 4 point average gain in them . Jordan will be ok would suggest his average will go to about 5/6 at home anyway probably 4/5 away but can see him taking multiple rides . Simon and theo will be ok at home and probably achieve there average but can't see any great strides away would prefer Kennedy over Macdonald but again from what I have seen before dont think they have a massive improvement in one leap . Starting so far under the limit and hoping we have 46/47 points in us each meeting is just folly. Sincerely hope I'm wrong but even in a short season it's going to be long and painful 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted March 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said: Don't see it personally the heat leading trio will still be up against riders of the same standard they have been up against for the previous seasons so don't see a 4 point average gain in them . Jordan will be ok would suggest his average will go to about 5/6 at home anyway probably 4/5 away but can see him taking multiple rides . Simon and theo will be ok at home and probably achieve there average but can't see any great strides away would prefer Kennedy over Macdonald but again from what I have seen before dont think they have a massive improvement in one leap . Starting so far under the limit and hoping we have 46/47 points in us each meeting is just folly. Sincerely hope I'm wrong but even in a short season it's going to be long and painful Jorgensen is a nine point man in this division if his horror year at Newcastle was a one off, which his top division form would suggest it was. Of course its daft to start under the points limit but it's how you end not how you start (apart from actually starting of course) that counts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,483 Posted March 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, enotian said: Jorgensen is a nine point man in this division if his horror year at Newcastle was a one off, which his top division form would suggest it was. Of course its daft to start under the points limit but it's how you end not how you start (apart from actually starting of course) that counts. I sincerely hope your assumption is better than mine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcatdiary 3,156 Posted March 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Technik said: BWD first rode in the NL with Eastbourne . This means he is able to claim to be British & therefore a reduction in his average. What he may have done off shore is not a matter for discussion regards his BL average That ship has well and truly sailed, rides as a New Zealand rider in all recent WC qualifiers which is the deciding factor I am told. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,226 Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, enotian said: Jorgensen is a nine point man in this division if his horror year at Newcastle was a one off, which his top division form would suggest it was. Of course its daft to start under the points limit but it's how you end not how you start (apart from actually starting of course) that counts. Jorgensen flatters to deceive IMO.Though he was a great signing for Berwick but is inconsistent at best never know from one race to next ,he is a good guy though.Had a nasty shoulder injury which seemed to set him back . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted March 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Jorgensen flatters to deceive IMO.Though he was a great signing for Berwick but is inconsistent at best never know from one race to next ,he is a good guy though.Had a nasty shoulder injury which seemed to set him back . just don't think he ever wanted a Sunday track and was never happy at Newcastle. Made some shocking starts, at least one per meeting, and struggled to pass the top men even when he was quicker than them. If he can make starts in 13 and 15 he's capable of beating many of the other CL #1's. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Technik 462 Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said: That ship has well and truly sailed, rides as a New Zealand rider in all recent WC qualifiers which is the deciding factor I am told. Jason Bunyan - Multi New Zealand Champion, Rode as WC in the NZ SGP - Holds a British Passport Ricky Wells - Born in NZ represents USA in FIM events. Scott Campos - Former NDL rider was reserve for USA in SWC Ryan Terry-Daly - Races in NZ championship each year then in NL in UK. Rory Schelin - Rode for Australia in SWC & is currently British Champion All the above have represented more than one nation in FIM WC qualifying events. Which boat was your ilinformed friend on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronScorpion 1,399 Posted March 28, 2021 16 hours ago, Dandelion said: Well if that's the case, he still needs a good 0.47 points off his average... His confirmed average for last year was 8.75 though Go back to the top of page 43 & you might find something. Better still, as a Plymouth fan , here it is "I have just had a scan through the archives & BWD has a Championship average from 2018 BUT rode in the Premiership in 2019 so that will be his most recent average to be used, which was 5.47. This, converted by 1.5 for Championship racing gives 8.21. we only have 7.73 in total to play with. With him being a New Zealander, I am not sure if he is entitled to a reduction even though he rode in the NDL." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wee Eck 698 Posted March 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Technik said: Jason Bunyan - Multi New Zealand Champion, Rode as WC in the NZ SGP - Holds a British Passport Ricky Wells - Born in NZ represents USA in FIM events. Scott Campos - Former NDL rider was reserve for USA in SWC Ryan Terry-Daly - Races in NZ championship each year then in NL in UK. Rory Schelin - Rode for Australia in SWC & is currently British Champion All the above have represented more than one nation in FIM WC qualifying events. Which boat was your ilinformed friend on? The “boat” is defined in the speedway regulations. The 2020 regs - probably also the 2021 regs too - at 10.2.3c) say that a rider who has been or is eligible to ride in the NDL and has not represented an international body other than the ACU is eligible for a 2.5% reduction. So my reading is: Bunyan doesn’t count as he’s retired No to Wells, Campos and Schlein If BWD or Terry-Daley have ever ridden for Motorcycling New Zealand (or any governing body other than ACU) then they won’t get a discount. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronScorpion 1,399 Posted March 28, 2021 5 hours ago, arnieg said: He's ridden more than Craig Cook in the last 17 months, so perhaps Cook should get the reduction instead!! If that is the case then probably over 80% of riders in the Championship are entitled to a reduction. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,606 Posted March 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Technik said: What he may have done off shore is not a matter for discussion regards his BL average Yes it is, as you are seeking to rely on reduction to his average under: 10.2.3 b) riders who have been absent for more than 1 full season due to injury As a matter of fact he has ridden in New Zealand in the last 12 months and therefore has not been absent for a full 12 months. As 10.2.3 a) includes the phrase 'British speedway' while b) does not, it clearly demonstrates that this is relevant (not to mention a decade or so of precedent) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronScorpion 1,399 Posted March 28, 2021 So why was Crump's average reduced from 8.21(in 2020 declarations) to 8.00 for this year even though he has ridden in a few of the meetings in Australia this last winter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,606 Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, IronScorpion said: So why was Crump's average reduced from 8.21(in 2020 declarations) to 8.00 for this year even though he has ridden in a few of the meetings in Australia this last winter. Presumably his average is assessed under 10.2.3 (a) [which does specify British speedway] However I am less than convinced the assessment for 2020 should be different to that arrived at for 2019 (which appeared to be a discount of a 10 year old average). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,226 Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, enotian said: just don't think he ever wanted a Sunday track and was never happy at Newcastle. Made some shocking starts, at least one per meeting, and struggled to pass the top men even when he was quicker than them. If he can make starts in 13 and 15 he's capable of beating many of the other CL #1's. He does rely on his gating. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,848 Posted March 28, 2021 8 hours ago, enotian said: Jorgensen is a nine point man in this division if his horror year at Newcastle was a one off, which his top division form would suggest it was. Of course its daft to start under the points limit but it's how you end not how you start (apart from actually starting of course) that counts. Jorgensen has never had an average above 8.00, can't really consider him a 9.00 man, which is a figure very few riders reach these days! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites