British world champions ratings list

[chunky 6,081]

4 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

I suppose a quite different list would be which of the eight riders had the most potential.  Looking at the way that Michael Lee strolled to his first World Championship at the age of 21, he might be No 1 for that one.  At the time, it was mentioned that he had to be a contender to go on to match or surpass Mauger. Instead it turned out to be his only title.

Of course, and when we were arguing about Lee before, I myself stated that while I wouldn't place him above Collins, Woffinden, or Craven as far as "best" British rider, he was perhaps the most talented and potential-laden rider in the history of speedway.

Unfortunately, some people can't differentiate between "best" and "most-talented", and the sad thing is that most of the really talented youngsters don't get anywhere near fulfilling their potential. That's not just a speedway thing, either.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

5 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

I suppose a quite different list would be which of the eight riders had the most potential.  Looking at the way that Michael Lee strolled to his first World Championship at the age of 21, he might be No 1 for that one.  At the time, it was mentioned that he had to be a contender to go on to match or surpass Mauger. Instead it turned out to be his only title.

What he did achieve  in speedway Sam,  ninety per cent of riders would of bit your arm off for 

[chunky 6,081]

39 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

What he did achieve  in speedway Sam,  ninety per cent of riders would of bit your arm off for 

It doesn't matter; he was also the biggest waste of talent that speedway has ever seen...

[one of clubs 116]

For the life of me I really cannot understand why some posters place TW above Peter Collins in this category.

[chunky 6,081]

3 minutes ago, one of clubs said:

For the life of me I really cannot understand why some posters place TW above Peter Collins in this category.

Because they go by performances and results...

[norbold 7,098]

31 minutes ago, one of clubs said:

For the life of me I really cannot understand why some posters place TW above Peter Collins in this category.

Maybe because winning three World Championships in the Grand Prix era is seen as a greater achievement than winning one in the old one-off days.

[waiheke1 4,295]

12 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

I suppose a quite different list would be which of the eight riders had the most potential.  Looking at the way that Michael Lee strolled to his first World Championship at the age of 21, he might be No 1 for that one.  At the time, it was mentioned that he had to be a contender to go on to match or surpass Mauger. Instead it turned out to be his only title.

Lee, Collins, Craven, Woffy, Price, Williams, Havvy, Loram. 

tricky tbh, at least for me  assessing "potential" of williams/price

[waiheke1 4,295]

5 hours ago, chunky said:

It doesn't matter; he was also the biggest waste of talent that speedway has ever seen...

I'd say K Moran and Ward would rank higher. Lee did become world champion  and make the podium twice. 

 

[waiheke1 4,295]

5 hours ago, one of clubs said:

For the life of me I really cannot understand why some posters place TW above Peter Collins in this category.

3 world titles. Better gater, better round first bend, nearly as good from the back, not as good at team riding, but overall I'd argue slightly more complete rider given the importance of the start/first turn.

you could argue PC was the most talented rider of his generation but potentially underachieved, whereas Tai would rank below Emil and Darcy for talent, but his focus and commitment has seen him be more successful. 

[chunky 6,081]

16 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

I'd say K Moran and Ward would rank higher. Lee did become world champion  and make the podium twice. 

 

The reason I say he was the biggest waste of talent because he had more talent than anybody else, and therefore more to waste, and his career was so short purely because of his own doing.

I think that it is harsh to include Ward when his career was cut short by injury.

Edited October 8, 2019 by chunky

[waiheke1 4,295]

15 minutes ago, chunky said:

The reason I say he was the biggest waste of talent because he had more talent than anybody else, and therefore more to waste, and his career was so short purely because of his own doing.

I think that it is harsh to include Ward when his career was cut short by injury.

I agree he had more talent, but when you look at what he achieved vs say what Kelly did (noting both came 4th on world final debut as a teenager) I'd say Kelly's was a bigger waste - not far off talent wise, but no comparison in terms of achievement. 

Darcy is a tough one - clearly he lacked professionalism in his off track activities- but he was still young, and injury robbed him of his chance of redeeming the earlier missed opportunities- and you could argue that signs were there that he was maturing. Equally you could argue had he not shown up to that GP well over the limit, he could have been world champ that season, which is right up there in wasted opportunities. And Darcy is for me the most naturally gifted rider I've seen (too young to have seen Lee's teenage years other than via youtube), though happy to acknowledge Lee to be a greater talent.

[chunky 6,081]

Obviously, Lee was more talented, and he achieved more, but a lot of people forget that Moran was 4th in each of his World Final appearances, and actually averaged 11 points in World Finals - higher than Lee's WF average. That's still pretty impressive...

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

10 hours ago, chunky said:

It doesn't matter; he was also the biggest waste of talent that speedway has ever seen...

I can't disagree with that Steve.

[norbold 7,098]

I would agree that Lee has to be top for wasted talent. Yes, he did win the World Final once and make the podium twice more, which is, of course, pretty impressive by any standards, but, had it not been for his "other activities", I am certain we would be talking about him in discussions about greatest ever rider and he would be right up there with the likes of Fundin, Mauger and Rickardsson, perhaps even coming out no.1 on most people's all-time lists. That is a waste of talent.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

7 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

3 world titles. Better gater, better round first bend, nearly as good from the back, not as good at team riding, but overall I'd argue slightly more complete rider given the importance of the start/first turn.

you could argue PC was the most talented rider of his generation but potentially underachieved, whereas Tai would rank below Emil and Darcy for talent, but his focus and commitment has seen him be more successful. 

Collins for me was by far the superior to Woffinden from coming from the back a terrific sight his sublime pass of Simmo in 1976 a typical example.