British world champions ratings list

[britmet 233]

13 hours ago, iris123 said:

As ‘World’ champ Craven did have some good meetings overseas. Is there any record of Williams or Price doing much outside of England ?

Freddie Williams had great successes in South Africa and Rhodesia in the '50s, - a time when all the World-class riders, Briggs, Moore, Craven, Crutcher, Nygren, Fundin, etc , spent the winter there - , including Golden Helmet MRC wins in both countries. He was undefeated SA GH champ in '53/'54, and had a 10.56 league average over his 2 league season there.
Details  HERE

[norbold 7,102]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

You are mixing up boxing fans with speedway fans. Boxing fans can be spread all over. There are though a number of long standing boxing clubs in SE London.The manager at WH Smith’s might have sold lots of boxing books, so orders more. Without any demand for speedway books they don’t stock any.... that is how business works

Generally, but not exclusively speedway fans are situated near a speedway track. No doubt in the days of Wimbledon there might well have been a few fans in the Bromley area, but interest has at a guess waned since those days

When I first spoke to my publisher about producing a speedway book, I said I wanted to write one about Speedway in London. They asked me how many tracks were still open in London and I told them there weren't any, so they said they didn't think they would be able to sell it as they thought that a niche" book about speedway would only sell at speedway track shops. So we agreed that I should write "Speedway in East Anglia" instead as there were four tracks still open.

They printed 1200 copies and sold out within two weeks and then sold a further 1200 in just about a month. What amazed them was that most of the sales were in "High Street" bookshops in Norwich where the track had long since closed. They then agreed to my Speedway in London book, which reached no.3 in the Sunday Times Sports Books chart.

The moral is you don't need to be a bookshop near a track to sell books about speedway!

[Guest]

18 hours ago, gustix said:

Britain has had eight speedway world champions. This is how I rate them:

(1) Peter Craven

(2) Fred Williams

(3) Tommy Price

(4) Tai Woffinden

(5) Peter Collins

(6) Michael Lee

(7) Mark Loram

(8) Gary Havelock

In the Opening Post I have deleted the reference 'Grand Prix' to what is now shown (quote above refers).

12 hours ago, chunky said:

You do realise that "Grand Prix Winners" are actually "World Champions"?

Steve

 A correction has been made in the Opening Post to quell the resultant upset my badly phrased comment created. Please see my corrected quote in the Opening Post.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, norbold said:

When I first spoke to my publisher about producing a speedway book, I said I wanted to write one about Speedway in London. They asked me how many tracks were still open in London and I told them there weren't any, so they said they didn't think they would be able to sell it as they thought that a niche" book about speedway would only sell at speedway track shops. So we agreed that I should write "Speedway in East Anglia" instead as there were four tracks still open.

They printed 1200 copies and sold out within two weeks and then sold a further 1200 in just about a month. What amazed them was that most of the sales were in "High Street" bookshops in Norwich where the track had long since closed. They then agreed to my Speedway in London book, which reached no.3 in the Sunday Times Sports Books chart.

The moral is you don't need to be a bookshop near a track to sell books about speedway!

A most interesting comment norbold.

[steve roberts 9,242]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

When I first spoke to my publisher about producing a speedway book, I said I wanted to write one about Speedway in London. They asked me how many tracks were still open in London and I told them there weren't any, so they said they didn't think they would be able to sell it as they thought that a niche" book about speedway would only sell at speedway track shops. So we agreed that I should write "Speedway in East Anglia" instead as there were four tracks still open.

They printed 1200 copies and sold out within two weeks and then sold a further 1200 in just about a month. What amazed them was that most of the sales were in "High Street" bookshops in Norwich where the track had long since closed. They then agreed to my Speedway in London book, which reached no.3 in the Sunday Times Sports Books chart.

The moral is you don't need to be a bookshop near a track to sell books about speedway!

Both excellent reads too!

[iris123 20,940]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

The moral is you don't need to be a bookshop near a track to sell books about speedway!

No, but I think you would agree, if you ain’t stocking the book, you ain’t going to sell it. This is part of a longer conversation. Of course there is an alternative. Someone can order the book from the shop. That might, just might wake their interest in a niche market. But if you just go in ask if a book is in stock and then go, that in all probability is the end of the story for the bookshop. Now if that sort of thing happened quite often it might be another story ....As I said in a previous answer, Foyles in the center of London had a few speedway books a few years back, at a time when there were no longer any London tracks, so I have noticed the phenomenon you point out, and posted about it just this week

Edited September 29, 2019 by iris123

[norbold 7,102]

5 minutes ago, iris123 said:

No, but I think you would agree, if you ain’t stocking the book, you ain’t going to sell it. This is part of a longer conversation. Of course there is an alternative. Someone can order the book from the shop. That might, just might wake their interest in a niche market. But if you just go in ask if a book is in stock and then go, that in all probability is the end of the story for the bookshop. Now if that sort of thing happened quite often it might be another story ....As I said in a previous answer, Foyles in the center of London had a few speedway books a few years back, at a time when there were no longer any London tracks, so I have noticed the phenomenon you point out, and posted about it just this week

Yes. I also think there is a difference between the sort of history books I wrote and a book by Tai Woffinden. Because a lot of people "used to go" to speedway and that's why my East Anglia book sold so well in Norwich and my London book in London as people there could wallow in a bit of nostalgia and read about their heroes and relive their younger days when they "used to go" to speedway. I guess to most people, even former speedway supporters, a book about Tai Woffinden would actually mean very little.

[iris123 20,940]

And a couple of your books were among those Foyles had on the shelves. I am not sure if Sportspages still exists, but I would imagine they might also have a speedway book or two on the shelves. But a random WH Smith’s in SE London is more likely to stock a boxing or F1 book or 2 than a speedway book I would suspect 

Edited September 29, 2019 by iris123

[norbold 7,102]

1 minute ago, iris123 said:

And a couple of your books were among those Foyles had on the shelves. I am not sure if Sportspages still exists, but I would imagine they might also have a speedway book or two on the shelves. But a random WH Smith’s in SE London is more likely to stock a boxing or F1 book or 2 than a speedway book I would suspect 

Sportspages no longer exists but it was where most of my London books sold when it came out. Mark Loram went in there one day not long after it was published and signed a number of copies quite unbeknown to me!

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

21 hours ago, steve roberts said:

From the riders I have seen from that list my list would be:

1. Collins 2. Lee 3. Loram. 4. Havelock...of those that I didn't see the one rider I wish I had was Peter Craven. Anybody who could circumnavigate Cowley at 63 secs when the average time during that period was 67 secs had to be someone special.

I would have Lee in front of Collins Steve, Peter would of won it in 77 without injury but i believe Lee should of won it in 79/83.

 

 

 

 

 

[steve roberts 9,242]

10 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I would have Lee in front of Collins Steve, Peter would of won it in 77 without injury but i believe Lee should of won it in 79/83.

 

 

 

 

 

Fair comments Sid. I base Collins higher due to his involvement in many of England's successes at Pairs and Team levels during the seventies. I saw Lee's first England cap at White City when England took on the Rest of the World...how things have changed that no one nation could stand up to England back then!

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Just now, steve roberts said:

Fair comments Sid. I base Collins higher due to his involvement in many of England's successes at Pairs and Team levels during the seventies. I saw Lee's first England cap at White City when England took on the Rest of the World...how things have changed that no one nation could stand up to England back then!

Great points Steve and yes PC was a better team man i did also think of Mike winning the Longtrack title which was one hell of an achievement.Peter i feel was capable of winning a title from 75/ 78'Michael i think 1977/83???? 

[chunky 6,087]

2 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Fair comments Sid. I base Collins higher due to his involvement in many of England's successes at Pairs and Team levels during the seventies. I saw Lee's first England cap at White City when England took on the Rest of the World...how things have changed that no one nation could stand up to England back then!

As has been mentioned previously Steve, it is easy to attach too much significance to PC's record in the World Cup. Three gold medals, and three maximums, against vastly inferior opponents (Michanek was the only true world class rival in those finals) really shouldn't be unexpected.  Apart from Mich, the best riders in those events were his team-mates! Plus, the finals didn't feature Mauger or Olsen.

However, you are correct when it comes to the pairs finals.

Sidney - don't forget that Collins should also have won in 1975, but for those idiots who took it upon themselves to water the track. When you talk about Lee, there is no way you can say he "should" have won in 83. Muller was the best rider on the night, and it's not like he had a fall or Jessup-style e/f that ruined his chances.

Steve

[steve roberts 9,242]

2 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Great points Steve and yes PC was a better team man i did also think of Mike winning the Longtrack title which was one hell of an achievement.Peter i feel was capable of winning a title from 75/ 78'Michael i think 1977/83???? 

Having read interviews with Peter down the years he makes a case that he could have well won three on the trot. !975 when some idiot was let loose with a hose at Wembley...1978 is a bit more debatable as he didn't qualify for the Final having missed out at the British Final (Iwas there cheering on Gordon Kennett!) when his fuel was allegedly tampered with...great thing discussing speedway. Full of 'ifs' and 'buts'.

[steve roberts 9,242]

2 minutes ago, chunky said:

As has been mentioned previously Steve, it is easy to attach too much significance to PC's record in the World Cup. Three gold medals, and three maximums, against vastly inferior opponents (Michanek was the only true world class rival in those finals) really shouldn't be unexpected.  Apart from Mich, the best riders in those events were his team-mates! Plus, the finals didn't feature Mauger or Olsen.

However, you are correct when it comes to the pairs finals.

Sidney - don't forget that Collins should also have won in 1975, but for those idiots who took it upon themselves to water the track. When you talk about Lee, there is no way you can say he "should" have won in 83. Muller was the best rider on the night, and it's not like he had a fall or Jessup-style e/f that ruined his chances.

Steve

Fair point alhough he did achieve maximums in three different countries...Poland which was always regarded as a graveyard to British riders back then and the Poles were notoriously fast in their own back yard but were on the decline by then to be fair.