tocha 306 Posted August 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ghosty said: Please read what I've said, I think Bob was pretty much top dog so with Bob no longer having a say things are just a little different! They are different. Some years ago I read an article, it might have been in SS, stating that Bob had submitted planning permission to develop the site. He went on to say that he had no intention of pulling out but, with no obvious successor, he want to do the best for his family when the time came. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,013 Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Skidder1 said: I was answering the poster that said 'even the best supported Championship sides don't get more than 1000'! Presumably Eastbourne do loads of promotional activity in their holiday town? (Eastbourne still is a holiday town isn't it? Although I know Bournemouth was the place people went to retire and Eastbourne the place people went to die!) They do especially on social media, but the likes of Poole have always had an advantage over a lot of teams in that they must gain quite a few hundred (plus) every meeting from fans who walk or travel a very short distance, unlike all having to drive to Arlington, it's a 100 mile round trip for me. I remember the heady days of meetings at Exeter with Ivan Mauger etc, that really was a track( and what a track) where a large proportion of the crowd walked there, and the likes of me on holiday were a bonus. Edited August 16, 2021 by gazzac 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hackett 220 Posted August 16, 2021 10 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: The loss of a renowned team like Eastbourne has further reaching implications, the disillusioned fans aren't going to just up and relocate to Kent or Poole every week, many sadly will drift away despite being good away supporters. The impact will be felt by the clubs left behind who will slip closer towards the same fate...... Living in Surrey that would certainly be the case for my family. No more speedway except the SGP Cardiff + SoN. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old bob at herne bay 828 Posted August 17, 2021 There are clearly serious issues with the speedway operation at Eastbourne, headed up by IanJordan. His business plan appears to have gone spectacularly wrong. Earlier this year we were told the the stadium owners had invested heavily in the stadium facility, tarmacing approach roads in the car park, rewiring the stadium, and improving the toilet facilities. This does not sound like a stadium owner about to sell the stadium for redevelopment? However, Eric Dugard is a successful businessman, and clearly is expecting a return on his investment, from his tenants, or at very least breaking even. I would suggest that the stock car operation is profitable, and will continue to provide an income to the stadium owners. The speedway operation however, clearly is costing the owners money ( how much is pure speculation) and no stadium owner is going to continue subsidising a tenant. Serious issues to resolve. For all Eastbourne fans, I hope that speedway continues at the venue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted August 17, 2021 I think it's clear that for many teams the "old NDL" level was perfect . Clubs who only get crowds of around 400 to 800 as an average, would be far better running at that old NDL level.. Paying some "old heads" a few quid extra, and the same to any lads who decide "I am quite happy at this level" even if the "powers that be" are not happy that they dont move up into the top two leagues... A top two leagues that are dont forget 90% the same, so as contrived, as contrived could be.. The NDL always seemed to the best ran, as well as offered the best value for money, as whenever I watched it the racing was very good due to the majority of all riders being not a million miles away from each other in ability.. And you could often audibly hear the young lads under their helmets celebrating as they got off the bike after winning a race, or cursing as they finished last, which showed how much it cared to them.. I could watch the Colts at the NSS for £10 for me and my lad pre Covid or pay £33 to us to watch the Aces.. Needless to say my "live Speedway fix" invariably meant a Colts visit, rather than an Aces one.. The fundamental problem that exists is that, "Moving up a league" means absolutely nothing in Speedway given you can pick and choose what leagues to race in, therefore I fail to see why some promoters see this as some kind of advancement or aspiration and risk their comfortably working business model... The fans dont see "moving up" as anything "exciting" as they know that the top two leagues carry no "Wow Factor" in winning, and, no disrespect, but there are hardly any 'superstars' going to visit your circuit that will bring those extra fans so needed to be sustainable in.. And you put your prices up to pay for the added costs, which is never a good idea when customers dont see any tangible difference in what you offer... I would suggest that whether those in charge like it or not, the sustainable level for the majority of clubs in the UK nowadays is the "old NDL level" or, maybe, at a push, "Championship Lite"... 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hackett 220 Posted August 17, 2021 Invested ??? They have put gravel in the carpark. Stadium facilities are no different apart from a couple of new sponsors and as for the toilets there are new cubes in the urinal .... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted August 17, 2021 14 hours ago, gazzac said: They do especially on social media, but the likes of Poole have always had an advantage over a lot of teams in that they must gain quite a few hundred (plus) every meeting from fans who walk or travel a very short distance, unlike all having to drive to Arlington, it's a 100 mile round trip for me. I remember the heady days of meetings at Exeter with Ivan Mauger etc, that really was a track( and what a track) where a large proportion of the crowd walked there, and the likes of me on holiday were a bonus. The trouble with "promoting" using social media is that, in the most part, you only reach those that you have already reached. Without purchasing some kind of advertisement package, so that you pop up as an advert via an algorithm to a similar sport or interest, you ain't going to attract many new visitors. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reliant Robin 492 Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, mikebv said: I think it's clear that for many teams the "old NDL" level was perfect . Clubs who only get crowds of around 400 to 800 as an average, would be far better running at that old NDL level.. Paying some "old heads" a few quid extra, and the same to any lads who decide "I am quite happy at this level" even if the "powers that be" are not happy that they dont move up into the top two leagues... A top two leagues that are dont forget 90% the same, so as contrived, as contrived could be.. The NDL always seemed to the best ran, as well as offered the best value for money, as whenever I watched it the racing was very good due to the majority of all riders being not a million miles away from each other in ability.. And you could often audibly hear the young lads under their helmets celebrating as they got off the bike after winning a race, or cursing as they finished last, which showed how much it cared to them.. I could watch the Colts at the NSS for £10 for me and my lad pre Covid or pay £33 to us to watch the Aces.. Needless to say my "live Speedway fix" invariably meant a Colts visit, rather than an Aces one.. The fundamental problem that exists is that, "Moving up a league" means absolutely nothing in Speedway given you can pick and choose what leagues to race in, therefore I fail to see why some promoters see this as some kind of advancement or aspiration and risk their comfortably working business model... The fans dont see "moving up" as anything "exciting" as they know that the top two leagues carry no "Wow Factor" in winning, and, no disrespect, but there are hardly any 'superstars' going to visit your circuit that will bring those extra fans so needed to be sustainable in.. And you put your prices up to pay for the added costs, which is never a good idea when customers dont see any tangible difference in what you offer... I would suggest that whether those in charge like it or not, the sustainable level for the majority of clubs in the UK nowadays is the "old NDL level" or, maybe, at a push, "Championship Lite"... Exactly this......and at present, moving up to the Premiership means same product as the Championship just paying higher overheads. So until the structure can be amended to make the Premiership, or whatever they want to call it, the tier Clubs want to race at, there's absolutely no point being there. All Clubs may as well accept that they should all just run at the 'Old NDL' level...but then you run out of riders again and around it goes. By the lower leagues wanting to remain stronger to keep their product attractive, it makes a mockery of the tiered structure currently in place, with the Premiership being nothing of the sort. No simple answers, but there's no structure and extremely blurred lines within the 3 tiers at present. I do hope there's some positive news to come from Eastbourne, always enjoyed my trips down there over the years. Edited August 17, 2021 by Reliant Robin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solrac 313 Posted August 17, 2021 Having been to many tracks across the country and watching speedway for many moons I don't think the Eagles could do much more than they do already with social media, fan engagement etc..Some clubs are stuck too much in the past but don't think Eastbourne can be accused of this. There's always plenty of youngsters in the crowd. We don't get to see the balance sheets, rider costs, effect of Covid etc so am sure Jordan and co thought they would have a manageable business. Be interesting to see what they say over the next day or two. Let's be honest, sports teams of varying types often run at a technical loss but are subsidised by wealthy owners/sponsors, however Speedway rarely has that luxury so the margin between success and failure is tight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted August 17, 2021 The Arlington fanbase being spread far an wide doesent help, neither does the stadiums rural location. Tickets for this Saturdays meeting are still on sale, so i presume it will run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Reliant Robin said: Exactly this......and at present, moving up to the Premiership means same product as the Championship just paying higher overheads. So until the structure can be amended to make the Premiership, or whatever they want to call it, the tier Clubs want to race at, there's absolutely no point being there. All Clubs may as well accept that they should all just run at the 'Old NDL' level...but then you run out of riders again and around it goes. By the lower leagues wanting to remain stronger to keep their product attractive, it makes a mockery of the tiered structure currently in place, with the Premiership being nothing of the sort. No simple answers, but there's no structure and extremely blurred lines within the 3 tiers at present. I watched a match in the Championship the other week.. Danny King, Hans Anderson, Nick Morris, Steve Worrall, Rory Schlein and Kyle Howarth all rode.. Now those six riders should be heat leaders for three teams, not two. (In the same league I mean as they obviously are heat leaders for lots of teams in the UK).. Having three heat leaders of that level in the 2nd Div is madness, and means many other teams failing to get anywhere near, thus they end up spending money to try and compete that the admission money from five hundred punters or so can never hope to cover.. To be honest, for me, those six lads should really be heat leaders in six teams, as that spreads around "the talent" more evenly and maybe gives those with such low numbers of fans at least a chance to compete.. Bottom line is your attendance levels should dictate the league you race in, and moving around leagues (up or down), isnt going to make much difference either way to your average crowd numbers it seems... And on the odd occasions, we can see some "go up" and drop crowds, and some "go down" and increase them! Edited August 17, 2021 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solrac 313 Posted August 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, mikebv said: I watched a match in the Championship the other week.. Danny King, Hans Anderson, Nick Morris, Steve Worrall, Rory Schlein and Kyle Howarth all rode.. Now those six riders should be heat leaders for three teams, not two. (In the same league I mean as they obviously are heat leaders for lots of teams in the UK).. Having three heat leaders of that level in the 2nd Div is madness, and means many other teams failing to get anywhere near, thus they end up spending money to try and compete that the admission money from five hundred punters or so can never hope to cover.. To be honest, for me, those six lads should really be heat leaders in six teams, as that spreads around "the talent" more evenly and maybe gives those with such low numbers of fans at least a chance to compete.. Bottom line is your attendance levels should dictate the league you race in, and moving around leagues (up or down), isnt going to make much difference either way to your average crowd numbers it seems... And on the odd occasions, we can see some "go up" and drop crowds, and some "go down" and increase them! Very fair point. When Eastbourne won NDL/KOC a few years I was just as happy as if we'd won the top league. It really doesn't matter what league you're in as such, as there is no promotion/relegation, you just try and win that league. The moral of the story is stay in the league that won't bankrupt you! 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Normski 1,315 Posted August 17, 2021 Only been to Eastbourne once to watch my beloved Bandits score 16pts in the KO Cup Final in 1977, but i don't bear a grudge lol and sincerely hope something can or will be done for speedway to continue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,246 Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, mikebv said: I think it's clear that for many teams the "old NDL" level was perfect . Clubs who only get crowds of around 400 to 800 as an average, would be far better running at that old NDL level.. Paying some "old heads" a few quid extra, and the same to any lads who decide "I am quite happy at this level" even if the "powers that be" are not happy that they dont move up into the top two leagues... A top two leagues that are dont forget 90% the same, so as contrived, as contrived could be.. The NDL always seemed to the best ran, as well as offered the best value for money, as whenever I watched it the racing was very good due to the majority of all riders being not a million miles away from each other in ability.. And you could often audibly hear the young lads under their helmets celebrating as they got off the bike after winning a race, or cursing as they finished last, which showed how much it cared to them.. I could watch the Colts at the NSS for £10 for me and my lad pre Covid or pay £33 to us to watch the Aces.. Needless to say my "live Speedway fix" invariably meant a Colts visit, rather than an Aces one.. The fundamental problem that exists is that, "Moving up a league" means absolutely nothing in Speedway given you can pick and choose what leagues to race in, therefore I fail to see why some promoters see this as some kind of advancement or aspiration and risk their comfortably working business model... The fans dont see "moving up" as anything "exciting" as they know that the top two leagues carry no "Wow Factor" in winning, and, no disrespect, but there are hardly any 'superstars' going to visit your circuit that will bring those extra fans so needed to be sustainable in.. And you put your prices up to pay for the added costs, which is never a good idea when customers dont see any tangible difference in what you offer... I would suggest that whether those in charge like it or not, the sustainable level for the majority of clubs in the UK nowadays is the "old NDL level" or, maybe, at a push, "Championship Lite"... My big hope is that the 3rd tier is allowed to govern itself once more. All promotions who have a team in the league get a say and all those that don't can bugger off. Let those who are affected by the decisions make the decisions and hopefully allow a fuller and more prosperous league to flourish. Yes fans clamour for higher league racing but they clamour for a team to support more and id happily wager that Eastbourne, Kent, Brum, Newcastle supporters would much rather turn out and support their NDL team (with all the balanced and exciting racing that goes with it) than no speedway at all. Dare i say it but could a breakaway league even occur? If the powers that be aren't going to get behind clubs and address the problems then perhaps the calls for more radical action are growing. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reliant Robin 492 Posted August 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: My big hope is that the 3rd tier is allowed to govern itself once more. All promotions who have a team in the league get a say and all those that don't can bugger off. Let those who are affected by the decisions make the decisions and hopefully allow a fuller and more prosperous league to flourish. Yes fans clamour for higher league racing but they clamour for a team to support more and id happily wager that Eastbourne, Kent, Brum, Newcastle supporters would much rather turn out and support their NDL team (with all the balanced and exciting racing that goes with it) than no speedway at all. Dare i say it but could a breakaway league even occur? If the powers that be aren't going to get behind clubs and address the problems then perhaps the calls for more radical action are growing. I'd say that Eastbourne & Kent should be comfortable in a sustainable 2nd tier with the crowds that they get. It is made unsustainable by the more affluent or bigger backed 2nd tier Clubs signing higher end riders that really shouldn't be at that level. So the solution becomes for Eastbourne and Kent to drop back down and become the more affluent at a lower level, with the knock on effect being felt by those lower down as the 3rd tier gets stronger and more competetive. Speedway is a sport, and so should be competetive, but the problem is not just one of the NL being made too weak, there is a fundamental issue with the structure right the way through the leagues, and how that structure is voted/brought in 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
