Eastbourne 2020

[The Dog 413]

The whole financial structure needs sorting out, nobody seems to know what riders wages are tho my guess is that collectively they outstrip turnstile clicks. Until recently, there has never seemed to be too many of them working during the winter so they must be earning quite well to compensate this. We all want the best riders and successful teams but not at the cost of clubs going under, hopefully riders realise this too because it's their jobs that are disappearing... 

[mikebv 10,240]

52 minutes ago, orion said:

Sometimes to much is made of the state of uk  speedway for the problems clubs face .... Should Eastbourne really be in this much trouble due to one or two bad crowds ? 

Who knows what go's on behind closed doors and if all funds etc have gone back into the club ...sometimes its just down to poor people who run the club 

Maybe there should be a"fit and proper person test" done on promoters before they get allowed to take over a track..

Lke football have..

Oh, hang on.... 

[HGould 2,213]

A shame to see Brummies, Newcastle and now Eastbourne struggling like this.

I don't doubt there are others in very similar situations.

Hoping for a decent Crowd at Brummies tonight but it seems "week to week" there too at the moment.  Two decent Crowds but what happens after next poor one?

We all thought when restrictions eased Crowds would rise, may be the opposite as more things for people to do and spend their money on, especially in Tourist areas.

I know football is going to be an issue for Clubs like Brummies now as season has started and a few more have to chose 90 minutes or 15 heats!. 

[mikebv 10,240]

38 minutes ago, The Dog said:

The whole financial structure needs sorting out, nobody seems to know what riders wages are tho my guess is that collectively they outstrip turnstile clicks. Until recently, there has never seemed to be too many of them working during the winter so they must be earning quite well to compensate this. We all want the best riders and successful teams but not at the cost of clubs going under, hopefully riders realise this too because it's their jobs that are disappearing... 

Every track should be made to present its business plan to a group of people who represent the BSPL..

They then sign it off as acceptable after reviewing historical crowd data..

(Again, another reason for some independent governance)..

"Hoping to get sponsorship", and "i am sure we will get decent crowds turning up post covid because they will have missed Speedway so much", isnt really a business plan..

And if the bond is based on "standard pay rates" why don't these rates get paid?

Or why isn't the bond therefore much larger to reflect the actual pay rates that get paid out?

And who decides the "standard pay rates" in the first place if riders "lose a lot of money" when retrospectively getting paid after a track closure..?

Surely this means this figure is miles out from what it actually is?

I can recruit staff at £50 an hour if I dont end up paying them their full pay..

Meaning I get the best quality individuals..

Then close and they get £10 an hour for their hours worked when the administration team move in..

The reality being of course is that if I paid them £10 an hour in the first place I may have been solvent.

But obviously could only have recruited a standard of employee in the £10 an hour bracket rather than the £50 an hour bracket.. 

"Cutting your cloth accordingly' is the phrase I believe..

Edited August 18, 2021 by mikebv

[orion 7,610]

56 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

The crowds at Arlington have crashed post lockdown. I would imagine apart from the first 2 meetings, they are probably 300 down. If you multiply this x £18, it's a small fortune to lose on a weekly basis. Add on the payments for away meetings and it's easy to see that the sums don't add up.

Yet again  depends what they based there break even figure on  and remember we knew about covid etc before the start of the season ... Its hard to figure out how a team after 16weeks can be so deep in debt .

It pretty clear it's been poorly ran and has give it's self no wiggle room 

[old bob at herne bay 828]

Mikebv posted

“Every track should be made to present its business plan to a group of people who represent the BSPL..

They then sign it off as acceptable after reviewing historical crowd data..”

Maybe they all ought to feature on an episode of “The Apprentice” and see how many Sir Alan Sugar would back.

Sadly I fear if your idea were to be implemented, very very few clubs would pass muster as viable businesses .......

[cityrebel 2,960]

10 minutes ago, orion said:

Yet again  depends what they based there break even figure on  and remember we knew about covid etc before the start of the season ... Its hard to figure out how a team after 16weeks can be so deep in debt .

It pretty clear it's been poorly ran and has give it's self no wiggle room 

The break even figure in 2019 was around the 900 mark.

[old bob at herne bay 828]

Sadly I have lost count of the number of successful teams I have passionately supported in my younger days , only to be completely let down by a “promoters” ego at the end of a season to take “their” club into a higher division, based on no more than a wing and a prayer and certainly no firm financial business plan. Stuff the supporters. 

Example: Eastbourne Speedway enjoyed its most successful “noughties” period under Connor and Martin Dugard. Sound financial plan in the NDL and they were the team to beat in the NDL. 

Then, mysteriously Jordan and Cook moved in, Connor and Martin “stepped aside” great things were promised moving into the Championship, but  losses began to accrue. Some might say Covid caused this...... I beg to differ... Eastbourne were a very successful NDL club, appealed to the local youngsters and that’s their level given their crowd demographic and level of interest in the area. 

I have seen this all before , ( the late Jon Cook being involved with another venture with Stuart Douglas) at Lakeside with riders still owed money , Hackney completely ruined by John Louis and Ronnie and Terry Russell going into the Elite league with a woefully weak side, leading to the rapid demise of Hackney one season later. 

This is why I have no time for any modern day speedway “promoter”. I don’t believe a word they say. 

 

 

[iainb 4,962]

15 hours ago, mikebv said:

A budget for each league should be set, which includes all wages and 'add ons' such as flights, vans, hotels etc...

With all sponsorship values and cost invoices lodged with the BSPL for scrutiny and transparency...

All wages then get paid via the BSPL, and any tracks found doing "something dodgy" via made up company sponsorship deals, or brown envelopes etc, then get kicked out..

Even in sports awash with money cost caps have been introduced, Messi has just left Barca, because of this, there's financial fair play in football, F1 has a cost cap (except for driver contracts) and have limitations on parts that can be used. I know in a lot of cases some of these aren't perfect and some people will say "ah but so and so did this and so and so did that"... but Speedway has nothing at all in place to try and control  costs, the best thing they could introduce in recent years was the bond for when a poorly club inevitably goes bust. For me cost caps and running through a BSPL umbrella, with the best will in the world, ain't going to work. What has seemed to work fairly well in F1 (whether you agree with sporting penalties (grid penalties) or not) is the restriction on the parts that can be used. I was watching Talking Dirt the other day and AshTech is working with Mercedes F1 on a new part for a Speedway bike, won't make any difference to the racing yet when it's been developed ALL riders are going to need one. Technological advancement is part of the appeal of F1, for Speedway it shouldn't even be in the equation.

12 hours ago, hammer1969 said:

Match off see Eastbourne website

I can't see how not running on a Saturday night in the Summer in favour of postponing the meeting to possibly a money losing double header in the Autumn helps the club... it very much looks like the writing is on the wall.

12 hours ago, flagrag said:

My understanding is that Eastbourne owners have until Midnight Tuesday to pay the outstanding debts to the riders for wages  and SCB for their fees ,otherwise the SCB & BSPL will terminate their license with riders getting paid at standard BSPL rates out of the bond that is held for each club.

Will they also be fining Eastbourne for what happened at Leicester on Saturday night if they do survive? It seems like the BSPL have stepped in too late, what happened on Saturday night should never have been allowed to happen. Maybe the BSPL should be running the club in the meantime on regular race nights, using their pay scales until the situation can be resolved, just postponing the matches helps nobody if there is a serious chance of the club being saved.

11 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

Also one of the biggest grumbles in the sport for what seems forever is too many team changes each season.

Both the above named promoters tended to keep the basis of the previous seasons squad so fans were happy as continuity in the team makeup. I doubt if the riders would stay loyal to the Promoter/club if they weren't getting paid.

I do worry that the Play-Off system, especially in the lower leagues, where it is not demanded by TV, has a detrimental effect on the financial viability of the sport. All for what? A bumper crowd at the end of the season for the successful clubs while the unsuccessful ones have shut up shop with 6 weeks of the season left. Clubs making changes left, right and centre mid season in a scramble to make the play offs for a possible season extension. In a traditional league campaign, you make your team at the beginning of the year according to your budget and you see where you finish at the end of the year with that budget, only replacing riders due to injury.

3 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

A rider can’t appear in two 1-7s. If a rider moved on, Eastbourne would have to put together a declared 1-7 made up of riders who are available.

When is the transfer deadline?

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

The whole financial structure needs sorting out, nobody seems to know what riders wages are tho my guess is that collectively they outstrip turnstile clicks. Until recently, there has never seemed to be too many of them working during the winter so they must be earning quite well to compensate this. We all want the best riders and successful teams but not at the cost of clubs going under, hopefully riders realise this too because it's their jobs that are disappearing... 

I was once told on here that if you want to know how much a rider gets paid, ask them and if you want to know a clubs attendance, ask the turnstile operator. The trouble is the riders jobs aren't disappearing, not the top riders anyway, it's the lesser riders that are forced out, the journeymen that the sport relies on, even this season what's happened to Josh Auty, Josh Bates, Ty Proctor, Paul Hurry and probably others I can't think of right now.

Edited August 18, 2021 by iainb

[HGould 2,213]

10 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Sadly I have lost count of the number of successful teams I have passionately supported in my younger days , only to be completely let down by a “promoters” ego at the end of a season to take “their” club into a higher division, based on no more than a wing and a prayer and certainly no firm financial business plan. Stuff the supporters. 

Example: Eastbourne Speedway enjoyed its most successful “noughties” period under Connor and Martin Dugard. Sound financial plan in the NDL and they were the team to beat in the NDL. 

Then, mysteriously Jordan and Cook moved in, Connor and Martin “stepped aside” great things were promised moving into the Championship, but  losses began to accrue. Some might say Covid caused this...... I beg to differ... Eastbourne were a very successful NDL club, appealed to the local youngsters and that’s their level given their crowd demographic and level of interest in the area. 

I have seen this all before , ( the late Jon Cook being involved with another venture with Stuart Douglas) at Lakeside with riders still owed money , Hackney completely ruined by John Louis and Ronnie and Terry Russell going into the Elite league with a woefully weak side, leading to the rapid demise of Hackney one season later. 

This is why I have no time for any modern day speedway “promoter”. I don’t believe a word they say. 

 

 

No surprise really that 2 Clubs pretty much forced out of the NDL for 2019 due to reduced points limit then (and since) are struggling now e.g Brummies and Eastbourne.

Both did very well in a proper 3rd Tier NDL 2015 - 2017, the problem was that League became too fat, big enough for likes of Kent; Eastbourne, Brummies, Mildenhall and a few others to get good crowds and level of support but to try to outdo each other financially in 2017 and 2018, but too big to sustain Stoke, Buxton etc.

The demise of Stoke and Buxton killed the spirit of what the NDL was all about.

I know Brummies could not make NDL work in 2019 as crowds were losing interest in the 2018 level product and the 2019 would have been more watered down still. 

 

[Racin Jason 72 1,270]

11 hours ago, flagrag said:

My understanding is that Eastbourne owners have until Midnight Tuesday to pay the outstanding debts to the riders for wages  and SCB for their fees ,otherwise the SCB & BSPL will terminate their license with riders getting paid at standard BSPL rates out of the bond that is held for each club.

In the meantime as there is no guarantee that this demand can be met by the Eastbourne club all riders have been advised that they are free to speak to other clubs if they wish which as they have not been paid for so long  and had numerous false promises they may well consider moving on a safer option.

That sounds like the SCB and the BSPL have their hands out first and then hang them out to dry.  
if the riders do move on then Newcastle should have first shout.  But we all know money talks and they will go to Glasgow 

[lewy 2,322]

2 minutes ago, Racin Jason 72 said:

That sounds like the SCB and the BSPL have their hands out first and then hang them out to dry.  
if the riders do move on then Newcastle should have first shout.  But we all know money talks and they will go to Glasgow 

Why should Newcastle have first shout, absolutely no reason!)

[Sings4Speedway 3,246]

19 minutes ago, iainb said:

the journeymen that the sport relies on, even this season what's happened to Josh Auty, Josh Bates, Ty Proctor, Paul Hurry and probably others I can't think of right now.

they were all dropped because they were shi....under-performing compared to the standard expected of them.

[iainb 4,962]

15 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

they were all dropped because they were shi....under-performing compared to the standard expected of them.

form is temporary, class is permanent, well perhaps that's not the correct phrase to use in this situation , but the Josh's were injured at the time of being dropped, these types of rider are the life blood of the sport in this country. Just look at the riders competing in the NDL 10 years ago and look at where they are now. Most of them are lost to the sport, where they should be solid 2nd strings in the sport instead we're relying on doubling up riders.

Byron Bekker
Scott Richardson
Karl Mason
Adam Mckinna
Chris Widman
Jack Hargreaves
Mark Baseby
Lewis Blackbird
Ben Taylor
Rob Branford
Adam Allott
Ryan Blacklock
John MacPhail
Barrie Evans
Richard Franklin
Darryl Ritchings
Luke Chessell
David Mason
Ben Hopwood
Marc Owen
Brandon Freemantle
Shane Hazelden
Rob Smith
Lee Smethills
Brendan Johnson
Tom Hill
John Resch
Darren Mallett
Oliver Rayson
Adam Lowe
James Cockle
Tom Stokes
James Brundle
Aaron Baseby
Joe Jacobs
Daniel Halsey
Danny Stoneman
Jay Herne
Tom Young
Jamie-White Williams
Matt Bates
David Gough
Richard Andrews
Paul Cooper
Adam Wrathall
Greg Blair
Ashley Birks
Oliver Greenwood
Jaimie Pickard
Gareth Isherwood
Tim Webster
Ben Reade

National DEVELOPMENT League

Edited August 18, 2021 by iainb

[ruckerroo 792]

Its really worrying , moreso for the locals as its a bit of an outpost down there. Sounds terminal to me