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gustix

Speedway's future IMO

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Partnering  a rider in one night, and then riding against him on another night in another domestic league, and then with him in another country the next night, and against him in yet another country the night after that, must have a huge bearing on the level of racing...

You simply won't be as aggressive to win against someone who you will be sat next to in the pits somewhere else tomorrow..

I would defy anyone to 'give everything' for their teams given such situations..

Just human nature..

Therefore the level of competitiveness has to suffer...

Unless, of course, it's Poland where individual contracts worth several hundred thousands pounds are on the line, and tens and tens of thousands of rabid fanatical fans are critically judging you every race... 

That focuses your mind and motivates you to give 100% every race I would suggest.. ;)

 

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33 minutes ago, orion said:

 give me some hard facts that fans are walking away just because riders double up .

Oh, we all stopped going to Plough Lane because Colin Richardson was riding for both Wimbledon and Eastbourne...

The writing was clearly on the wall for Birmingham and Milton Keynes when Andy Grahame had the audacity to qualify for both the BLRC and NLRC in the same season.

Moxey must have been disgusted to see PC appearing regularly for both Belle Vue AND Rochdale. How terrible...

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39 minutes ago, mikebv said:

and tens and tens of thousands of rabid fanatical fans are critically judging you every race... 

Pish...

That's bugger all compared to dealing with some of the rabid creatures here on the BSF...

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18 hours ago, gustix said:

Do you mean the difference between average 900 for individual meetings compared to 1,000 for a team match?

I ll think you  will find at many clubs individuals (apart from maybe one longstanding meeting) get crowds comparable to challenge matches, which can be as 50 percent lower gate.

Even at Kent which supports the challenges etc pretty well must have at least a 20-25 percent dip for non team events.

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8 hours ago, chunky said:

Oh, we all stopped going to Plough Lane because Colin Richardson was riding for both Wimbledon and Eastbourne...

The writing was clearly on the wall for Birmingham and Milton Keynes when Andy Grahame had the audacity to qualify for both the BLRC and NLRC in the same season.

Moxey must have been disgusted to see PC appearing regularly for both Belle Vue AND Rochdale. How terrible...

...or Gordon Kennett, Malcolm Ballard, Mike Sampson, John Davis and a host of others during the Oxford/White City and Eastbourne'Peterborough tie up.

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Perhaps all the happenings mentioned in previous Posts is because basically speedway is not a genuine team/club sport?

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I think people are using their own examples to win an argument. Of course there were doubling up decades back - PC for Rochdale and Belle Vue, Richardson for Eastbourne and Wimbledon, Gordon Kennett, Malcolm Ballard.

But, I'm using facts here, those riders were connected to the clubs they doubled-up with and went on to have long careers with them.

You can't compare today's methods the same as back then.

Now, I'm afraid, a team is cobbled together with as much thought as a football match in a PE lesson at school. 

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10 hours ago, orion said:

Yet again I never said I was happy with my lot ..fans were leaving a long time before doubling up started ..give me some hard facts that fans are walking away just because riders double up .. I can find plenty of Swindon speedway who don't go anymore and I doubt if any were ever worry that say Ramus Jensen rides for Glasgow the next day .

 

The band of people I used to go to speedway with have stopped attending because of the doubling-up rules, amongst other things. You don't treat your car in a slap-dosh way you would a company vehicle.Too many riders are not owned by the club and are passed around like a cig behind the bike sheds.

Ask those "plenty" of ex-Swindon fans why they don't attend anymore. Once we get a handle on why, perhaps we can halt the decline.

I know why the group I went with stopped attending. It was Doubling Up, Golden Doubles... all rules that make it a daft sport to put you heart into.

Edited by moxey63
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18 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I think people are using their own examples to win an argument. Of course there were doubling up decades back - PC for Rochdale and Belle Vue, Richardson for Eastbourne and Wimbledon, Gordon Kennett, Malcolm Ballard.

But, I'm using facts here, those riders were connected to the clubs they doubled-up with and went on to have long careers with them.

You can't compare today's methods the same as back then.

Now, I'm afraid, a team is cobbled together with as much thought as a football match in a PE lesson at school.

...and it was a good system back then in my view. Certainly helped bring on British talent.

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I think the main problem with doubling up was missing riders. Fixed race nights in the top league has sorted that, really. Now it's barely noticeable that Rasmus Jensen rides for Glasgow and Adam Ellis rides for, er, whoever he rides for.

Riders doubling up has always been there, even if not to the degree it is now. It wasn't always young riders and connected teams. I remember Gordon Kennet doing it at Swindon towards the end of the year.

In 1987, we had Andrew Silver at "number 8" who was better than half the Swindon team so rider absences often made us stronger. This isn't a new issue.

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40 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

The band of people I used to go to speedway with have stopped attending because of the doubling-up rules, amongst other things. You don't treat your car in a slap-dosh way you would a company vehicle.Too many riders are not owned by the club and are passed around like a cig behind the bike sheds.

Ask those "plenty" of ex-Swindon fans why they don't attend anymore. Once we get a handle on why, perhaps we can halt the decline.

I know why the group I went with stopped attending. It was Doubling Up, Golden Doubles... all rules that make it a daft sport to put you heart into.

 

Doubling up makes no difference at all.

 

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1 hour ago, moxey63 said:

I think people are using their own examples to win an argument. Of course there were doubling up decades back - PC for Rochdale and Belle Vue, Richardson for Eastbourne and Wimbledon, Gordon Kennett, Malcolm Ballard.

But, I'm using facts here, those riders were connected to the clubs they doubled-up with and went on to have long careers with them.

You can't compare today's methods the same as back then.

Now, I'm afraid, a team is cobbled together with as much thought as a football match in a PE lesson at school. 

You better ask current team managers/promoters if that is how they put their teams together!  ie Dale Allitt

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57 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Doubling up makes no difference at all.

 

But it does...

To the most significant issue for several teams which is..

Their race night...

Fixed nights are in place to ensure double uppers are able to ride as much as possible to earn enough to carry on, (and ensure plenty of guest replacements are available)..

Sheffield changed last year to a Sunday because racing on a Thursday became not possible and suffered as a consequence..

This ultimately closed down Buxton who couldn't run profitably against their neighbour on the same afternoon.

BV would get better crowds riding on a Friday or Saturday night but cannot due to fixed nights..

And Poole have said losing Wednesday impacted their crowd levels..

And we saw what happened to Workington when they lost their race night slot because "there wasn't enough riders to guest when so many riders rode on the same evening"..

Doubling up is pretty much irrelevant for me from the respective competitions perspective as it doesn't really matter who wins the titles anyway so mixing riders in two or three leagues won't make me go or not go..

However the race night will..

In "The good old days" :rolleyes: as has been mentioned, doubling up was common place for development. PC did indeed ride for BV and Rochdale, however..

BV still rode every Saturday night and didn't change race nights to accommodate his participation..

 

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but in the "good old days" doubling up was only a British & Commonwealth thing, now it's anyone

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2 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Doubling up makes no difference at all.

 

How do you know? Just because you still attend, it doesn't mean the gaps surrounding you prove otherwise.

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