enotian 562 Posted November 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, DC2 said: That makes the problem worse. If all of the northern teams best all of the southern teams, home and away, you’d still have three southern teams in the play offs. At least with one league table there would be a chance for four or five northern teams to make the playoffs. No it doesn't. You've pointed out that if there's one league and all the teams in one region are poorer than the teams in the other, then by virtue of having more fixtures against poorer teams, would finish higher up the combined table despite having always been beaten by teams in the other conference. In your example by virtue of the Northern teams being of a higher standard the worst two or three wouldn't be able to make the top six because they have 20 harder matches (i.e. against northern teams) than the best teams in the south who only have 12 harder matches. That inequality is exactly why there has to be two separate 'conferences' (and unfortunately for Newcastle/Plymouth why there doesn't really need to be an even number of teams). Importantly, as I pointed out in my original response, the quarter finals need to be 2nd north vs 3rd south and 2nd south vs 3rd north. That means if the northern teams are all better than their southern counterparts then three of them will make the semi finals. Not perfect but it's sport it's not supposed to be perfect. It's all theoretical anyway so don't even get started on the averages after year one!! Where a six pointer in one conference could be a nine pointer in the other..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, StevePark said: So teams in the North wouldn't meet teams in the South (in the league) and have home and away three times (15 home and 15 away matches)? Then fans would complain that they'd only seen five different teams in the league!! I reckon they've (just about) got it right the way they've done it. I agree(just about), although I think 'enotian' does have a valid point/s. I don't think it right to guarantee 3 teams from each section of qualification. However if a team decides not to run, might it upset the balance of teams per section which will lead to further problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, DC2 said: That makes the problem worse. If all of the northern teams best all of the southern teams, home and away, you’d still have three southern teams in the play offs. At least with one league table there would be a chance for four or five northern teams to make the playoffs. Or even 4 or 5 southern teams doing it. They shouldn't mess around with the fundamental rules of a league tho Would it have not been possible to give all teams 2 home and 2 away fixtures (22 meetings) and scrap the CS ? and BTW, a noticed you didn't say '6 northern teams',,, do you know something and not wanting to say? Edited November 17, 2019 by ruffdiamond Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justgotmecpc 1,059 Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dandelion said: Quick question: When are the fixtures normally announced? Can't really remember... Thanks Edit: I don't just mean for Newcastle... I mean for everyone Let's hope they include Newcastle 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted November 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, enotian said: No it doesn't. You've pointed out that if there's one league and all the teams in one region are poorer than the teams in the other, then by virtue of having more fixtures against poorer teams, would finish higher up the combined table despite having always been beaten by teams in the other conference. That inequality is exactly why there has to be two separate 'conferences' (and unfortunately for Newcastle/Plymouth why there doesn't really need to be an even number of teams). I appear to have misunderstood you. I am using the current proposed fixtures, and in that case one league table is better than two conference tables. I assume you are saying that it would be better if there were two separate conferences with no meetings with a team in the other conference? Even that would be no better as the teams in one conference could all be better than those in the other. The only fair way is for the teams to be in one league and ride against each other the same number of times. Fairness has been sacrificed for less travelling/more “derbies”. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dandelion said: Quick question: When are the fixtures normally announced? Can't really remember... Thanks Edit: I don't just mean for Newcastle... I mean for everyone They might want to wait until they know who'll be taking part first. A suppose they could do a quick reccy and if someone does drop out, they could give them to someone else who might want to take part 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Sorry but you have the 2014 version completly wrong their was definitelty no lottery element and if that was your perception of the proposal maybe that's why it didn't go through... but never mind we now have regionalisatation in the form of the new 2020 format lets see how it goes and whether the fans like it or not... Regards THJ My quotes were direct from the BSPA website. If you suggest the allocation of the additional fixtures wasn’t wholly random I wouldn’t disagree - Peterborough went to Plymouth as one of our extra fixtures ISTR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, NeilWatson said: My quotes were direct from the BSPA website. If you suggest the allocation of the additional fixtures wasn’t wholly random I wouldn’t disagree - Peterborough went to Plymouth as one of our extra fixtures ISTR. As the person who created, developed and proposed the 2014 regional format and presented the proposal to the BSPA along with Daryl Illingworth including the 2 point reserve and the 6 man team format your recollection is a tad off... Everything we proposed back in 2014 is being drip fed through in various watered down formats... as someone said earlier the changes in the sport happen at a painfully slow rate... If they had bit the bullet in 2014 and run with the whole proposal Newcastle may not be in this predicament now and Worky may still be here... The whole proposal was to try and deliver financial savings to clubs first and foremost and still offer competitive racing and a competitive structure that kept the interest going for the fans as long as possible into the season The Peterborough promotion were one of the biggest detractors and the promoter even stated at the Kings Lynn trialt that he was going to "find it hard to fiddle".... great role model eh... But never mind it's all water under the bridge and I honestly hope that the new format works and more importantly the fans like it... Regards THJ Just had a PM off Neil and we are talking at cross purposes here and it looks like I picked up the wrong end of his thread... but we are still singing from the same hymn book fortunately... lol... my bad... Edited November 17, 2019 by TotallyHonestJohn Edited for accuracy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Confused 0 Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Newcastle need to move away from Brough Park, why pay someone so much rent then take all food/alcohol profits? The rent they pay now could pay for land alone, food and alcohol could all be extra income. Other clubs have done it and are surviving Edited November 17, 2019 by Confused Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartinBSN 617 Posted November 17, 2019 Announced at Redcar last night that it would be two separate leagues of North and South with top 3 from each qualifying. Champions of each would go straight to play off semis and the rest battle it out amongst themselves 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Announced at Redcar last night that it would be two separate leagues of North and South with top 3 from each qualifying. Champions of each would go straight to play off semis and the rest battle it out amongst themselves That might be the only way it will work, if there isn't the same amount of teams per group. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted November 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Announced at Redcar last night that it would be two separate leagues of North and South with top 3 from each qualifying. Champions of each would go straight to play off semis and the rest battle it out amongst themselves I can’t see how that can be the case under the format as stated with each Club racing against both Groups during the season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaugerDiamond 0 Posted November 17, 2019 On 10/20/2019 at 6:08 PM, Tsunami said: Riders I would consider for next year would be :- Tero Wethers Ash Max Ull Stevie but no to Danny, Thomas or Lasse. Looks about right Tsunami! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justgotmecpc 1,059 Posted November 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, MaugerDiamond said: Looks about right Tsunami! Can only see maybe 4 out of that lot if Newcastle run that is 2,3,4& 5 in the list Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted November 17, 2019 7 hours ago, DC2 said: I appear to have misunderstood you. I am using the current proposed fixtures, and in that case one league table is better than two conference tables. I assume you are saying that it would be better if there were two separate conferences with no meetings with a team in the other conference? Even that would be no better as the teams in one conference could all be better than those in the other. The only fair way is for the teams to be in one league and ride against each other the same number of times. Fairness has been sacrificed for less travelling/more “derbies”. No please ignore the other comments. I'm basing my opinion on the proposed fixtures (twice h & a against your own region and once h & a against the other region). This is definitely a good idea and should have been done ages ago instead of the pointless Shield. I agree with you that the only really fair approach is that every team faces the same opposition the same number of times but that's either only 11 home fixtures or too many at 22 home fixtures. So 16 home fixtures is perfect. However, as you've pointed out, in terms of fairness it does raise the issue of all the teams not facing the same opposition the same amount of times. For that reason, as seems to have been confirmed at Redcar, there should be a Northern and Southern table (not a combined table) with the top three from each qualifying for the play offs. I reiterate hopefully when it comes to the quarter finals the 2nd in the North will play 3rd in the South etc. This will mean that if one region is more dominant than the other then the top three teams can make the semi finals. As I say not perfect but neither is the traditional league format when you consider teams can improve/strengthen over a season. Hope that clarifies for everyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
