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THJ

 

I heard at the weekend that the Seimen's site I referred to earlier, was originally the chosen site for a new St James Park. As that has not happened, and unlike to happen, it would definately be classed as industrial land, and I don't think it is contaminated  land either. Being on the doorstep of our present track, surely this land must be the first location to be checked out. Have you any 'heads up' John of availability and the possibility of converting it to a speedway raceway. The area has always been our home, and i'm not sure how many people would continue to attend if it was in some far flung new location.The Seimen's site is actually two sites split by Shields Road. What about the chances of getting the new track alongside the Metro line, with the Chillingham Road Metro station on our doorstep. Here's hoping.

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43 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

The area has always been our home, and i'm not sure how many people would continue to attend if it was in some far flung new location.The Seimen's site is actually two sites split by Shields Road. What about the chances of getting the new track alongside the Metro line, with the Chillingham Road Metro station on our doorstep. Here's hoping.

Just wandering how many fans live close by or rely on public transport to get to Brough?

Also, would a far flung new location maybe attract new fans?

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1 hour ago, Tsunami said:

THJ

 

I heard at the weekend that the Seimen's site I referred to earlier, was originally the chosen site for a new St James Park. As that has not happened, and unlike to happen, it would definately be classed as industrial land, and I don't think it is contaminated  land either. Being on the doorstep of our present track, surely this land must be the first location to be checked out. Have you any 'heads up' John of availability and the possibility of converting it to a speedway raceway. The area has always been our home, and i'm not sure how many people would continue to attend if it was in some far flung new location.The Seimen's site is actually two sites split by Shields Road. What about the chances of getting the new track alongside the Metro line, with the Chillingham Road Metro station on our doorstep. Here's hoping.

Dave

I can remember when that site was being mooted as the new St James Park replacement and I would also would suggest you are right in that the land will be classified as "Industrial Land" however to hold Speedway it will need a change of classification from a current B Classification (As it will be a classification from B1 through to B8 for its current purpose) to a "Sui generis" classification and this will need planning permission and it as at this stage where it will come unstuck I would suggest. Most classifications can swap over as long as certain criteria are met without going to planning as I have been involved with in the past when we built a leisure centre on an old industrial site but the D2 Planning Classification which states as follows

D2. Assembly and leisure - Cinemas, music and concert halls, bingo and dance halls (but not night clubs), swimming baths, skating rinks, gymnasiums or area for indoor or outdoor sports and recreations (except for motor sports, or where firearms are used).

You will note from the above the D2 Classification strictly rules out motor sports hence the need of a Sui generis classification and the requirement for full planning consent which in that location may struggle to go through. The whole planning process is an absolute minefield (unless you can get buy in from local councillors and the local MP's) and more so for motor sports...

If you are struggling to sleep have a look at this it explains a great deal of it

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Use_class_designation_for_land_and_buildings

That's why some brown field sites that haven't been fully classified yet can be easier to develop than a site already with a classification and again its all down to cash and also how many jobs you can create within the development area. If they were to say they were opening a hotel; a cafe; a pub and other venues with employment opportunities and create 10/20/30 full time jobs then this carries a great deal of weigh and the planning is looked upon more favourably. That is why a private site off plan so to speak would be a better call...

51 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Just wandering how many fans live close by or rely on public transport to get to Brough?

Also, would a far flung new location maybe attract new fans?

I am with you on this one Ruff as the car park is always full(ish) there are many travelling fans and also with a new location it will surely show a bounce on new fans who are new fangled with something different to do near to where they live

Regards
THJ

Edited by TotallyHonestJohn
Edited for accuracy
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16 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Dave

I can remember when that site was being mooted as the new St James Park replacement and I would also would suggest you are right in that the land will be classified as "Industrial Land" however to hold Speedway it will need a change of classification from a current B Classification (As it will be a classification from B1 through to B8 for its current purpose) to a "Sui generis" classification and this will need planning permission and it as at this stage where it will come unstuck I would suggest. Most classifications can swap over as long as certain criteria are met without going to planning as I have been involved with in the past when we built a leisure centre on an old industrial site but the D2 Planning Classification which states as follows

D2. Assembly and leisure - Cinemas, music and concert halls, bingo and dance halls (but not night clubs), swimming baths, skating rinks, gymnasiums or area for indoor or outdoor sports and recreations (except for motor sports, or where firearms are used).

You will note from the above the D2 Classification strictly rules out motor sports hence the need of a Sui generis classification and the requirement for full planning consent which in that location may struggle to go through. The whole planning process is an absolute minefield (unless you can get buy in from local councillors and the local MP's) and more so for motor sports...

If you are struggling to sleep have a look at this it explains a great deal of it

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Use_class_designation_for_land_and_buildings

That's why some brown field sites that haven't been fully classified yet can be easier to develop than a site already with a classification and again its all down to cash and also how many jobs you can create within the development area. If they were to say they were opening a hotel; a cafe; a pub and other venues with employment opportunities and create 10/20/30 full time jobs then this carries a great deal of weigh and the planning is looked upon more favourably. That is why a private site off plan so to speak would be a better call...

I am with you on this one Ruff as the car park is always full(ish) there are many travelling fans and also with a new location it will surely show a bounce on new fans who are new fangled with something different to do near to where they live

Regards
THJ

Was talking to my old boss last week and, he was on about 'new planning regulations', (or non at all, depending on how you look at it),,, that the government are trying to push thru during this coronavirus carry-on. He was saying that you'll be able to build what you like, even build upwards on properties you have/own. Dunno how that fares with sports venues tho, a think he was implying that it would favour the developers and not local residents. 

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40 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Was talking to my old boss last week and, he was on about 'new planning regulations', (or non at all, depending on how you look at it),,, that the government are trying to push thru during this coronavirus carry-on. He was saying that you'll be able to build what you like, even build upwards on properties you have/own. Dunno how that fares with sports venues tho, a think he was implying that it would favour the developers and not local residents. 

Yes, that was a new plan from Boris called " Build, Build, Build' which would allow restrictions to be ripped up to rejuvenate the Building sector.

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THJ

 

I am aware of the long term plan to swop the classification of 'only Sport' for Brough Park, being swopped with the ex Parsons land in order to build houses on the Brough Park site.

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12 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Yes, that was a new plan from Boris called " Build, Build, Build' which would allow restrictions to be ripped up to rejuvenate the Building sector.

Yeah but Dave, when we come out of this crisis, there's possibly gonna be millions unemployed. If there is anyone left that wants to invest in the future, maybe provide work/employment for the area, all avenues need be looked into.

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9 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

THJ

 

I am aware of the long term plan to swop the classification of 'only Sport' for Brough Park, being swopped with the ex Parsons land in order to build houses on the Brough Park site.

Where would that leave the dog racing,  Gosforth Park, perhaps?

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1 minute ago, ruffdiamond said:

Where would that leave the dog racing,  Gosforth Park, perhaps?

That was the objective in the first place, but given the future in Dogs is not that secure, I don't think the Dogs will go anywhere. They will just close down.

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13 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

That was the objective in the first place, but given the future in Dogs is not that secure, I don't think the Dogs will go anywhere. They will just close down.

I would think that depends on how much money the bookies make from the dogs in shops or online betting?,,, maybe the dogs days are numbered, it's so 'Old Hat' (flat cap) nowadays. 

Edited by ruffdiamond

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Honestly lads a love ya pragmatism... build build build refers to houses houses and more houses due to a national shortage (in the South East) (cough cough) apparently and councils will still get the ultimate say on new developments 

Sports and leisure are always a high priority because they employ people and generate a spend in the community however we are talking about motor sport... it will be difficult but not impossible... 

It will be down to Rob and his team to sell the idea and how it will benefit the region locally and nationally and more importantly the  local community (getting the kids in and keeping them entertained is a big plus) and also how much oomph he can put into his business plan... and the other thing in the Speedways favour is that it is there now so there would need to be a massive number of complainants to muddy the water....

It's all if's but"s and the proverbial and's at the moment however it is the right time to start looking and engaging in the process because I feel the writing is on the wall for Brough... sadly...

Regards 

THJ 

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18 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honestly lads a love ya pragmatism... build build build refers to houses houses and more houses due to a national shortage (in the South East) (cough cough) apparently and councils will still get the ultimate say on new developments 

Sports and leisure are always a high priority because they employ people and generate a spend in the community however we are talking about motor sport... it will be difficult but not impossible... 

It will be down to Rob and his team to sell the idea and how it will benefit the region locally and nationally and more importantly the  local community (getting the kids in and keeping them entertained is a big plus) and also how much oomph he can put into his business plan...

exactly. if you could convince a local authority that having a speedway (or sports) stadium  would bring thousands of visitors to the region (for example for a GP) to boost the local economy then you might be part of the way there. but then who funds it?

Gateshead FC have been looking for a new stadium for years.  There's plenty of waste ground in Gateshead but there's no funding.

I'd have thought with Rob Grants lineage to farming you're looking at a Berrington Lough type prospect rather than a NSS Manchester.

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34 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honestly lads a love ya pragmatism... build build build refers to houses houses and more houses due to a national shortage (in the South East) (cough cough) apparently and councils will still get the ultimate say on new developments 

Sports and leisure are always a high priority because they employ people and generate a spend in the community however we are talking about motor sport... it will be difficult but not impossible... 

It will be down to Rob and his team to sell the idea and how it will benefit the region locally and nationally and more importantly the  local community (getting the kids in and keeping them entertained is a big plus) and also how much oomph he can put into his business plan... and the other thing in the Speedways favour is that it is there now so there would need to be a massive number of complainants to muddy the water....

It's all if's but"s and the proverbial and's at the moment however it is the right time to start looking and engaging in the process because I feel the writing is on the wall for Brough... sadly...

Regards 

THJ 

Aye, 'pragmatism', that's probably where it hits the wall. :(

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Cash will be the problem and getting council backing... in the late 40's the 50's and early 60's when Speedway was second only to Football for crowd attendances  it wouldn't have been an issue... but now... getting enough cash and local council support will be very difficult I reckon.. and it won't be a stadium... no  NSS or Gateshead Stadium... more Gateshead Tip... 

An some French bloke screwed the other plan a had up me sleeve when he won the euro lottery last night...

Regards 

THJ 

Edited by TotallyHonestJohn
Missed out word

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