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2 minutes ago, Aceslider said:

Did you mean "matchday magazine" :) ?

Which are a non VAT item... you don't pay VAT on a magazine... hmmmm?

Experience has shown me Inland Revenue are reasonable people and work with you... The VAT man tends to read you your rights or tells you to pay up otherwise he will remove your Chattles? Then when you tell him you dont own a cow (which I thought was hilarious by the way) he blew his stack and came round the the office the following week to see for himself what was going on...

This could definitely rumble on for a while....

Regards 

THJ 

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2 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Which are a non VAT item... you don't pay VAT on a magazine... hmmmm?

Experience has shown me Inland Revenue are reasonable people and work with you... The VAT man tends to read you your rights or tells you to pay up otherwise he will remove your Chattles? Then when you tell him you dont own a cow (which I thought was hilarious by the way) he blew his stack and came round the the office the following week to see for himself what was going on...

This could definitely rumble on for a while....

Regards 

THJ 

Yes that is a point.

Just suppose you took the view that there was no VAT output to declare on sale of the magazine, it doesn't take a maths genius to work out the potential underdeclaration of VAT going back to the point when programmes became magazines, if HMRC did not accept the terminology. Whatever the hypothetical underpayment might be, interest and penalties would then need to be added. Could quickly turn a solvent company into an insolvent one.

As you say, could rumble on for a while. I wonder whether they will take the view that there is no point in pursuing given the lack of assets?

To a large extent, from the sound of things, it is now academic so far as the new promotion is concerned, which is great news for Newcastle Speedway

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Can I point out programmes are zero rated. However racecards are standard rated as they are principally for filling in. The HMRC leaflet on leaflets (!) and other printed materials provides very precise guidelines. 

For example a political or marketing leaflet is zero rated unless more than one third of it is a coupon or survey for filling in, detaching and returning.

I believe the Sheffield 'pizza menu' racecards of a few years back were VATable, but in general speedway programmes will be zero rated.

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2 hours ago, screm said:
Newcastle Speedway get green light for 2021.
After a very challenging and stressful 2020, with numerous issues going on behind the scenes, including an HMRC investigation from the period before the new managements took over, which ultimately gave sole director Rob Grant no other alternative but to appoint an insolvency practitioners company to wind up the company that operated the Newcastle Diamonds speedway team.
After plenty of discussions, and sorting various issues out with the liquidation officer, Greg Whitehead of Northpoint Insolvency Practitioners, club owner Rob Grant can, with relief, confirm Newcastle Diamonds will take to the track at the Newcastle stadium in 2021 trading under a new company, NEWCASTLE DIAMONDS LTD.
Grant added: "This certainly has been a rollercoaster of a year and we haven't even turned a wheel in anger. The challenging times we have just gone through have, at times, given myself a bit of a reality check, but I'm committed and enthusiastic as ever to ensure Newcastle Speedway continues.
"I am the sole director of the new company and I want everyone to know that I'm raring to get this show on the road.
"The new company will honour the benefits of the season tickets purchased as well as all the fantastic sponsorship packages we obtained earlier this year for 2021.
"I can't thank you all enough for your support and look forward to seeing you all next season."

Never in doubt

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1 hour ago, Aceslider said:

Yes that is a point.

Just suppose you took the view that there was no VAT output to declare on sale of the magazine, it doesn't take a maths genius to work out the potential underdeclaration of VAT going back to the point when programmes became magazines, if HMRC did not accept the terminology. Whatever the hypothetical underpayment might be, interest and penalties would then need to be added. Could quickly turn a solvent company into an insolvent one.

As you say, could rumble on for a while. I wonder whether they will take the view that there is no point in pursuing given the lack of assets?

To a large extent, from the sound of things, it is now academic so far as the new promotion is concerned, which is great news for Newcastle Speedway

To be fair it's a bit more complicated than that with regards to VAT and whether there are assets or not they pursue the individual or the Directors... hence everyone could spend unpaid tax revenues then fold a company to negate the need to pay said tax and that's when there is a risk of prosecution... Honestly I would be seriously worried if I was a former director and when you look at companies house you see it boils down to one director and one person who signed off the accounts

A quick internet search and you can see once the figures get towards the 100k mark then the HMRC see the value in putting the effort in to try and reclaim the unpaid taxes...

There maybe trouble ahead...

Regards 

THJ 

 

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10 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

To be fair it's a bit more complicated than that with regards to VAT and whether there are assets or not they pursue the individual or the Directors... hence everyone could spend unpaid tax revenues then fold a company to negate the need to pay said tax and that's when there is a risk of prosecution... Honestly I would be seriously worried if I was a former director and when you look at companies house you see it boils down to one director and one person who signed off the accounts

A quick internet search and you can see once the figures get towards the 100k mark then the HMRC see the value in putting the effort in to try and reclaim the unpaid taxes...

There maybe trouble ahead...

Regards 

THJ 

 

The company's net assets shown by the last filed accounts at 30 November 2018 only amounted to £25K.

The following season one imagines in financial terms would have been "difficult" so it is difficult to envisage any improvement on £25k and probably in reality a reduction from that value.

Can't really see HMRC getting too excited in all honesty although they might arguably have a claim ahead of other unpaid unsecured creditors if there are any.

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1 hour ago, Aceslider said:

The company's net assets shown by the last filed accounts at 30 November 2018 only amounted to £25K.

The following season one imagines in financial terms would have been "difficult" so it is difficult to envisage any improvement on £25k and probably in reality a reduction from that value.

Can't really see HMRC getting too excited in all honesty although they might arguably have a claim ahead of other unpaid unsecured creditors if there are any.

Honeslty 

There are no other unpaid unsecured creditors you have had that from the horses mouth.. If there were still issues the liquidators would deem RG an unfit director and he would be prevented from running the new venture... there is a mountain of case law on this and the issue is more technical than you may appreciate...

That's why the issue has to be with VAT and you only pay the difference on your purchases and sales so very simply put if I was a taxi driver and put 60 quid of juice in my vehicle 10 quid of that is VAT what I have paid... so I take 5 people x 12 quid in fares and that equates to 50 quid for me and 10 quid VAT so I dont pay the VAT man anything... now I take another 5 fares at 12 quid and the VAT man now wants 10 quid off me and this keeps rolling on...

Now look at all the items that attract VAT at the Speedway... like Sponsorship... Season Tickets... Gate Money... Shop Sales... Car Park Money and any other revenue that the club gets (except a zero rated match day magazine) and off set them against any outgoings.... VAT registered riders wages... fuels... plant maintenance and equipment... shale and track costs and any other expenditure (like producing a match day magazine) that the club needs to pay out and there are more examples on both sides of the equation... however you invariably end up with a positive towards the VAT man.... 

I am being a bit simplistic here but it is basically the mechanics of the thing...

They (HMRC) are going back to 2013 apparently and I will bet anything you want that this is the issue and I don't know for sure what the figures are but many small businesses on similar turnovers can rack up between 3 to 8 grand a quarter so a VAT bill of 12 to 32k per annum...

So take the mid point of that lot and 6 x 24k comes out at 144k and if my fag packet figures are correct then HMRC will be interviewing people...

Rest assured and you can take that to the bank Tax Free...

Regards 

THJ 

Edited by TotallyHonestJohn
Missed out word
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48 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honeslty 

There are no other unpaid unsecured creditors you have had that from the horses mouth.. If there were still issues the liquidators would deem RG an unfit director and he would be prevented from running the new venture... there is a mountain of case law on this and the issue is more technical than you may appreciate...

That's why the issue has to be with VAT and you only pay the difference on your purchases and sales so very simply put if I was a taxi driver and put 60 quid of juice in my vehicle 10 quid of that is VAT what I have paid... so I take 5 people x 12 quid in fares and that equates to 50 quid for me and 10 quid VAT so I dont pay the VAT man anything... now I take another 5 fares at 12 quid and the VAT man now wants 10 quid off me and this keeps rolling on...

Now look at all the items that attract VAT at the Speedway... like Sponsorship... Season Tickets... Gate Money... Shop Sales... Car Park Money and any other revenue that the club gets (except a zero rated match day magazine) and off set them against any outgoings.... VAT registered riders wages... fuels... plant maintenance and equipment... shale and track costs and any other expenditure (like producing a match day magazine) that the club needs to pay out and there are more examples on both sides of the equation... however you invariably end up with a positive towards the VAT man.... 

I am being a bit simplistic here but it is basically the mechanics of the thing...

They (HMRC) are going back to 2013 apparently and I will bet anything you want that this is the issue and I don't know for sure what the figures are but many small businesses on similar turnovers can rack up between 3 to 8 grand a quarter so a VAT bill of 12 to 32k per annum...

So take the mid point of that lot and 6 x 24k comes out at 144k and if my fag packet figures are correct then HMRC will be interviewing people...

Rest assured and you can take that to the bank Tax Free...

Regards 

THJ 

THJ you trying to get me into bother man you know I'm a very HONEST taxi driver 

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12 minutes ago, pienpeesman said:

THJ you trying to get me into bother man you know I'm a very HONEST taxi driver 

Ave heard you use red diesel an thats tax free too isnt it? So you're ok...

Regards 

THJ 

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8 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Ave heard you use red diesel an thats tax free too isnt it? So you're ok...

Regards 

THJ 

I wish red wine was VAT free.. Now that would be a result

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A football player can have a benefit match  ( cant spell test*****) and doesnt pat tax yet a poor coach driver gets stung for tax on any tips he might get lol , just saying.

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a footballer is not meant to give a speech at his testimonial events though or it becomes chargeable!

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17 hours ago, pienpeesman said:

THJ you trying to get me into bother man you know I'm a very HONEST taxi driver 

Didn't think there was one.:P

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there will always be honest taxi drivers . otherwise they dont get repeat customers . same with speedway  promoters !

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3 hours ago, jenga said:

there will always be honest taxi drivers . otherwise they dont get repeat customers . same with speedway  promoters !

Remember to ring Dandy highwaymen taxis when your in the toon & I shall come to your rescue & leave your pockets empty 

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