mikebv 10,264 Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Rent and running costs at Newcastle are high to start with so you start on the back foot.... the National League needs to be what it was supposed to be 10 quid a point 10 pence a mile training ground for new riders... you have riders in all three leagues currently which in my personal opinion is wrong... in the league we are in do we really want to see Danny Phillips ride against Cookie... not for me thanks... as S4S states above adhere to fair play rules and financial fair play rules as well but it won't happen because the governing body are weak and self serving... it was mentioned about taking Newcastle into the NL but would that sustain the current waining crowd levels and you still need 160 punters through the door at ten quid just to pay the rent (actually nearer 200 when you add in the VAT)... I remember some of the Gems meetings which were like the Somme with bodies lying all over the track ambulances running round like a circular bus route (No 19) and meetings taking hours to complete... Brough has never been a sympathetic track to the novice rider... Also I'm hearing Danny Phillips has signed for Redcar and if true I think that's the writing on the wall... Good night Vienna... I do so hope I am wrong... Regards THJ It ultimately goes back to a lack of clear demarcation between the Leagues which is driven in so many ways by the vanity of the Promoters 'playing above their level'... Poole are dropping down because they are not making the money Matt Ford wants to make, and many criticise him for it, however, it is 1000% the right decision as a business man.. He could decide to keep rubbing shoulders with the 'top riders' but has decided to cut his cloth accordingly.. Doubling up/down is a classic example of Promoters wanting better riders in their teams than their bank accounts can afford, and is only in place to provide them with these riders who, by the same, need to make ends meet by riding in two leagues.. There should be three clear Leagues based on support and income. With clear differing levels to make them aspirational, not comfort zoned.. League One = Teams who get circa 1000+ on average. £18 x 1000 punters = £18,000 (ex vat equals £14400). @£100 average per point equals £9000 for an average of 90 points home and away. Meaning £5400 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). League Two = Teams who get circa 600 minimum to 999 on average. £15 × 600 punters = £9,000 (ex vat equals £7200). @£50 average per point equals £4500 for 90 points home and away. Meaning £2700 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). League Three = Teams who get circa 300 minimum to 599 on average. £12 x 300 punters = £3600 (ex vat equals £2880). @£10 average per point equals £900 for 90 points home and away. Meaning £2700 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). In the top Two Leagues, individual deals are negotiated but the whole outlay is never higher than the £ per point average in total. And in League Three all get the same 'entry level Speedway' money.. Time to align the Three Leagues for aspirational advancement both for the riders and the teams themselves. As you organically grow then you move up. If you recede then you drop... Each though (riders and teams) 'play at their true level'.. Edited November 14, 2019 by mikebv 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, mikebv said: Time to align the Three Leagues for aspirational advancement both for the riders and the teams themselves. As you organically grow then you move up. If you recede then you drop... Each though (riders and teams) 'play at their true level'.. Hey man I wish you would stop talking sense... if you keep coming up with these good ideas you might find yourself in a job with the BSPA... Honestly... it makes perfect sense to me and well said... Think we have said it before; the fans can see what is wrong and you have explained why the blinkered BSPA wont do anything about it... think you have hit the nail on the head and come up with a very well thought out solution which I would love to see happen... But I wont hold my breath... well said buddy Regards THJ 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted November 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, mikebv said: League One = Teams who get circa 1000+ on average. £18 x 1000 punters = £18,000 (ex vat equals £14400). @£100 average per point equals £9000 for an average of 90 points home and away. Meaning £5400 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). I make that £18,000 for a 6 point rider in the PL, riding 30 matches in the season? That would have to be a net return to make it worthwhile, with all engines, tuning, equipment, vans, petrol and mechanics to be covered by sponsorship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,264 Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, DC2 said: I make that £18,000 for a 6 point rider in the PL, riding 30 matches in the season? That would have to be a net return to make it worthwhile, with all engines, tuning, equipment, vans, petrol and mechanics to be covered by sponsorship. A six point rider would be a DU rider I would think at circa 9pts a meeting.. That would get them at least £13500 and more probably as that is at £50 a point and they would get more being a No1 in League Two.. And probably riding abroad too for at least the same top League money again.. (£600 a night).. If that was the case and he only rode in one league overseas then that would deliver £49500 in total as a minimum. . Not loads, but not bad for six months work. And no one stops them from having another job when not riding Speedway.. And if crowds are much higher than the minimum then clubs can pay more accordingly. Eg if his team gets 1500 then his salary can be £27000... Over time the aspiration has to be each League pays enough money to meet the riders needs without DU'ing but the reality at present means it cannot be ruled out currently.. Bottom line though is clubs have to start paying out what comes in, and not more.. Edited November 14, 2019 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris116 756 Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) The easy way to curb doubling up/down would be to only allow a team to have a certain number of riders who are in two British leagues. Maybe make it 5 for 2020, 4 for 2021, 3 for 2022 and 2 for 2023 onwards. Teams would not be allowed to sign a rider in a team that had already filled their allowance (could be a real can of worms I realise). Edited November 14, 2019 by Chris116 Cans of worms! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigred 187 Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: with TJ and Phillips signed elsewhere maybe Newcastle do have a chance in 2020 Where has Philips signed for? If it’s another championship club then maybe that’s a sign that they’ll be bringing him back as a no1 in the national league !!!cant see many 2 pointers out there to replace dan in the championship Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shearer09 48 Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, bigred said: Where has Philips signed for? If it’s another championship club then maybe that’s a sign that they’ll be bringing him back as a no1 in the national league !!!cant see many 2 pointers out there to replace dan in the championship No1 in the National league he’s not even that good! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justgotmecpc 1,059 Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Shearer09 said: No1 in the National league he’s not even that good! Possible 2 or 4 at best just.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Shearer09 said: No1 in the National league he’s not even that good! 11 minutes ago, pienpeesman said: Possible 2 or 4 at best just.. If Danny's inclusion was the difference between, running or not, would you be happy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shearer09 48 Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, ruffdiamond said: If Danny's inclusion was the difference between, running or not, would you be happy? Me personally I wouldn’t got to watch national league speedway that’s just my opinion though! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justgotmecpc 1,059 Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said: If Danny's inclusion was the difference between, running or not, would you be happy? Would you ? He's a cracking kid but he just seems to have nee confidence at brough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justgotmecpc 1,059 Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Shearer09 said: Me personally I wouldn’t got to watch national league speedway that’s just my opinion though! Don't think it would last at Newcastle national League speedway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Shearer09 said: Me personally I wouldn’t got to watch national league speedway that’s just my opinion though! That's fine and, am sure your not alone. 7 minutes ago, pienpeesman said: Would you ? He's a cracking kid but he just seems to have nee confidence at brough I would give it a go, if it was the only option available. Sometimes you've gotta smash it all to bits before you get it right A think the problem we have is the fact that the track is not fully available and, the rent of course. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tosh1218 592 Posted November 14, 2019 I got shot down last year when I posted how poor Danny Phillips was for Scunthorpe in 2018 So one year on how did it he Diamond fans think he did ?, did he improve his average in a watered down leagu ? and finally would you have him back for 2019 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted November 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tosh1218 said: I got shot down last year when I posted how poor Danny Phillips was for Scunthorpe in 2018 So one year on how did it he Diamond fans think he did ?, did he improve his average in a watered down leagu ? and finally would you have him back for 2019 A, yes B, 2020? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
