iwright71 206 Posted November 12, 2019 51 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: The reshaping and track effort put in at Swindon confirms this, the racing is better and the crowds up How many other clubs have the facility or the money to reshape their track ? probably none. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A ORLOV 8,628 Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, iwright71 said: How many other clubs have the facility or the money to reshape their track ? probably none. Maybe they should spend some of the tv money, as they did not in the past, on the track rather than waste it. I appreciate there may be the odd track that cannot be changed but many could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted November 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, hyderd said: Swindon have had a tremendous season, that's what have improved the attendance, Peterborough have had a dire season, and it showed at the turnstiles. Somehow promoters have to get the stay away fans and new fans into the stadiums and what better way is there than good TV coverage along with exciting racing, so yes some tracks provide good racing, it needs to be all tracks providing it. I wonder if we had a F1 style start, 2 sets of tapes 1 set 10 metres behind the first, heat leaders start 10 metres back 2nd strings up front. Reserve heats all 4 start at the same tapes. Probably won't work but it is just a thought. I suggested that a while ago. It would certainly answer the “it’s all over by the first bend” criticism. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poole keith 909 Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, A ORLOV said: The reshaping and track effort put in at Swindon confirms this, the racing is better and the crowds up agree orlov,but reality is that the greyhound track was being shortened so if the speedway wanted to continue they had to bring the speedway track inside the new shaped dog track no choice,but they done it so full marks,many promotions wouldnt have 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crabba59 156 Posted November 12, 2019 It's not all tracks that need to change the shape, but lots need better preparation like I've said you only get good results if you put lots of work in......... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,235 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, hyderd said: Swindon have had a tremendous season, that's what have improved the attendance, Peterborough have had a dire season, and it showed at the turnstiles. Somehow promoters have to get the stay away fans and new fans into the stadiums and what better way is there than good TV coverage along with exciting racing, so yes some tracks provide good racing, it needs to be all tracks providing it. I wonder if we had a F1 style start, 2 sets of tapes 1 set 10 metres behind the first, heat leaders start 10 metres back 2nd strings up front. Reserve heats all 4 start at the same tapes. Probably won't work but it is just a thought. Works in Stock Cars having the best behind the lesser lights... Obviously in Speedway the top riders wouldn't be so positive about it I would think given the potential hit on earnings but it certainly would give some interest and maybe pay rates could still be agreed as per a normal race to ensure no loss to them? Maybe even go with two riders from each team at each starting gate? 8 man races? Like the 16 lapper used to do at Ipswich.. It couldn't be every heat obviously but maybe every fourth or so it could be included? Reserves v Second Strings, Second Strings v Heat Leaders then maybe a finale of the Top 4 from each team in the last heat of the night? Third and fourth scorers in front of the first and second. Run the races over five or six laps to give the four behind more of a chance to catch up to the four in front.. Something different to keep a crowd interested, and it would also mean a team well behind could make a huge turn round in fortune if they could deliver the first four riders in the race. Score it seven for first down to one for seventh.. Obviously you won't pay out points money quite the same given seven points for a No1 three or four times a night would possibly bankrupt the club.. Just pay out points money as if it was two separate normal races, eg you might come fourth overall but first in your race, so get four points for the team but three points worth of pay.. Eight bikes on the track would make even the most mundane meeting come alive I would suggest and as it's been done before (regularly at Ipswich) hardly a leap into the unknown if achievable or not.. Edited November 13, 2019 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hyderd 1,216 Posted November 13, 2019 15 hours ago, mikebv said: Works in Stock Cars having the best behind the lesser lights... Obviously in Speedway the top riders wouldn't be so positive about it I would think given the potential hit on earnings but it certainly would give some interest.. Maybe even go with two riders from each team at each starting gate? 8 man races? Like the 16 lapper used to do at Ipswich.. It couldn't be every heat obviously but maybe every fourth or so it could be included? Reserves v Second Strings, Second Strings v Heat Leaders then maybe a finale of the Top 4 from each team in the last heat of the night? Third and fourth scorers in front of the first and second. Run the races over five or six laps to give the four behind more of a chance to catch up to the four in front.. Something different to keep a crowd interested, and it would also mean a team well behind could make a huge turn round in fortune if they could deliver the first four riders in the race. Score it seven for first down to one for seventh.. Obviously you won't pay out points money quite the same given seven points for a No1 three or four times a night would possibly bankrupt the club.. Just pay out points money as if it was two separate normal races, eg you might come fourth overall but first in your race, so get four points for the team but three points worth of pay.. Eight bikes on the track would make even the most mundane meeting come alive I would suggest and as it's been done before (regularly at Ipswich) hardly a leap into the unknown if achievable or not.. the guys who know whether it would work or not are the riders,if it's put to them with an agreement of, "yes lets try it" then let's do just that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,235 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, hyderd said: the guys who know whether it would work or not are the riders,if it's put to them with an agreement of, "yes lets try it" then let's do just that. Spot on... Often we bemoan the racing as "bikes are too fast", or "tracks are not prepared well enough to meet the demands of the modern bike"... Therefore.. As races are often 'strung out' at many tracks with four riders, then put out races with more bikes on the track. Meaning there has to be more closer racing especially in the middle of the pack.. When eventually TV struggles to decide which part of the race to show, as so much potentially is happening, then Speedway will be on a winner, both from those in the stadiums to those in their armchairs.. Speedway started in 1928. Yet the sport is still using the same base structure over 90 years later even though all the infrastructure within the sport, bikes, tracks etc has moved on.. And just as importantly, what used to pass for entertainment 90 years ago is still being served up in the same way to a modern day populous, with far more to keep them occupied than was the case all those decades ago.. When you look at the evidence of the ever dwindling crowd numbers around the country its a simple conclusion to make.. And that is that the current structure of racing simply isn't delivering... So change it.. In the last 90 years since Speedway has ran with 'four riders per race, four laps per race, 3 points for a win etc' the following has happened... Rugby brought in more points for a try to encourage less kicking and more ball handling which the diminishing crowds were wanting to see more of.. Cricket brought in one day cricket, then 40 over cricket, then 20 over cricket and now 100 ball cricket to attract new followers and freshen the game up. Football brought in 3 points for a win to encourage teams to stop settling for draws, tried golden goals in extra time to encourage teams to score a winner as games were stagnating as teams settled for penalties and allows away goals to count more in Europe to encourage teams to attack away from home and not just defend.. Basketball introduced a 3 point line. Hockey changed its offside laws to be more attack biased, and F1 has tried god knows how many things to make their sport more competitive and deliver closer racing which deliver the key TV audience numbers globally that keeps the sponsors happy.. And I am sure loads of other sports have done similar 'fan focused' changes to their sports to meet the demands of their fan base and try to attract more fans in to grow their sports.. In lots of cases, the sport cannot fix what's 'off track' as it doesn't own the premises, however it can fix what's 'on track' with a little innovation. And fans won't bother anywhere near as much about facilities if what they are watching is top drawer entertainment. . Four laps, four riders per race simply doesn't cut it anymore.. So try something different... Edited November 13, 2019 by mikebv 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, mikebv said: When eventually TV struggles to decide which part of the race to show, as so much potentially is happening They'll just concentrate on the leader like they always do 3 minutes ago, mikebv said: Football brought in 3 points for a win Speedway brought in a points system so complex I need to take my laptop with me to work out who's got how ever many points Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
00000 1,279 Posted November 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: Spot on... Often we bemoan the racing as "bikes are too fast", or "tracks are not prepared well enough to meet the demands of the modern bike"... Therefore.. As races are often 'strung out' at many tracks with four riders, then put out races with more bikes on the track. Meaning there has to be more closer racing especially in the middle of the pack.. When eventually TV struggles to decide which part of the race to show, as so much potentially is happening, then Speedway will be on a winner, both from those in the stadiums to those in their armchairs.. Speedway started in 1928. Yet the sport is still using the same base structure over 90 years later even though all the infrastructure within the sport, bikes, tracks etc has moved on.. And just as importantly, what used to pass for entertainment 90 years ago is still being served up in the same way to a modern day populous, with far more to keep them occupied than was the case all those decades ago.. When you look at the evidence of the ever dwindling crowd numbers around the country its a simple conclusion to make.. And that is that the current structure of racing simply isn't delivering... So change it.. In the last 90 years since Speedway has ran with 'four riders per race, four laps per race, 3 points for a win etc' the following has happened... Rugby brought in more points for a try to encourage less kicking and more ball handling which the diminishing crowds were wanting to see more of.. Cricket brought in one day cricket, then 40 over cricket, then 20 over cricket and now 100 ball cricket to attract new followers and freshen the game up. Football brought in 3 points for a win to encourage teams to stop settling for draws, tried golden goals in extra time to encourage teams to score a winner as games were stagnating as teams settled for penalties and allows away goals to count more in Europe to encourage teams to attack away from home and not just defend.. Basketball introduced a 3 point line. Hockey changed its offside laws to be more attack biased, and F1 has tried god knows how many things to make their sport more competitive and deliver closer racing which deliver the key TV audience numbers globally that keeps the sponsors happy.. Four laps, four riders per race simply doesn't cut it anymore.. So try something different... Your examples from other sports would seem to make a compelling case. I know Eastbourne and Poole tried something 10/15 years ago where points (not race points) were won at 3 different stages of the match. Thing there was only one match, at Arlington I seem to recall that what they did was net met with much enthusiasm but at least they tried. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted November 13, 2019 The starting grid idea is good. It makes passing rather than gating the real art. Why not try it in the KO Cup? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigred 187 Posted November 13, 2019 31 minutes ago, DC2 said: The starting grid idea is good. It makes passing rather than gating the real art. Why not try it in the KO Cup? Wolves run the olympique which is a handicapped staggered start.cracking racing. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon1983 557 Posted November 13, 2019 100% agree Try the 8 bike grid in the CUP matches 14 standard heats Heat 15 a team nominated their 4 riders, two lowest scorers start from the front row, two highest from the back 6 lap final race 7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 points so you could get a 22 - 6 result in the final race swing Some cup matches some teams will smash others on aggregate but so be it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwright71 206 Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Spot on... Often we bemoan the racing as "bikes are too fast", or "tracks are not prepared well enough to meet the demands of the modern bike"... Therefore.. As races are often 'strung out' at many tracks with four riders, then put out races with more bikes on the track. Meaning there has to be more closer racing especially in the middle of the pack.. When eventually TV struggles to decide which part of the race to show, as so much potentially is happening, then Speedway will be on a winner, both from those in the stadiums to those in their armchairs.. Speedway started in 1928. Yet the sport is still using the same base structure over 90 years later even though all the infrastructure within the sport, bikes, tracks etc has moved on.. And just as importantly, what used to pass for entertainment 90 years ago is still being served up in the same way to a modern day populous, with far more to keep them occupied than was the case all those decades ago.. When you look at the evidence of the ever dwindling crowd numbers around the country its a simple conclusion to make.. And that is that the current structure of racing simply isn't delivering... So change it.. In the last 90 years since Speedway has ran with 'four riders per race, four laps per race, 3 points for a win etc' the following has happened... Rugby brought in more points for a try to encourage less kicking and more ball handling which the diminishing crowds were wanting to see more of.. Cricket brought in one day cricket, then 40 over cricket, then 20 over cricket and now 100 ball cricket to attract new followers and freshen the game up. Football brought in 3 points for a win to encourage teams to stop settling for draws, tried golden goals in extra time to encourage teams to score a winner as games were stagnating as teams settled for penalties and allows away goals to count more in Europe to encourage teams to attack away from home and not just defend.. Basketball introduced a 3 point line. Hockey changed its offside laws to be more attack biased, and F1 has tried god knows how many things to make their sport more competitive and deliver closer racing which deliver the key TV audience numbers globally that keeps the sponsors happy.. And I am sure loads of other sports have done similar 'fan focused' changes to their sports to meet the demands of their fan base and try to attract more fans in to grow their sports.. In lots of cases, the sport cannot fix what's 'off track' as it doesn't own the premises, however it can fix what's 'on track' with a little innovation. And fans won't bother anywhere near as much about facilities if what they are watching is top drawer entertainment. . Four laps, four riders per race simply doesn't cut it anymore.. So try something different... Didn't we try something revolutionary like the " golden double " or joker in the World Cup. How was that revolutionary change welcomed by fans ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruno 1,790 Posted November 13, 2019 8 riders on the track at Wolves!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
