tellboy 3,658 Posted November 14, 2019 6 hours ago, mikebv said: Isn't it rumoured that each track in the Premiership is getting £50k a season? With a five year deal? Thats £250k 'guaranteed'.. You could do quite a bit of track reshaping with that I would think.. Instead, I fear it will be used to pay more in salaries to riders who won't in five years have progressed the entertainment level of the sport forward in any way that better tracks more conducive to passing would do... Surely they wouldn't be getting £50,000 a season.If they were i would have expected more teams to come up,and for Poole not to go down which looks likely. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,234 Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/13/2019 at 10:56 AM, Falcon1983 said: 100% agree Try the 8 bike grid in the CUP matches 14 standard heats Heat 15 a team nominated their 4 riders, two lowest scorers start from the front row, two highest from the back 6 lap final race 7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 points so you could get a 22 - 6 result in the final race swing Some cup matches some teams will smash others on aggregate but so be it Most four man races finish with the winner 'miles in front' of second and the rider in last 'miles behind' the rider in third. . Riders second and third are usually the two closest to each other... In short, most of the action is done and dusted by lap one end.. In an 8 man race the rider in fourth cannot tail off like so many do now knowing they can't score as they still will score points for their team, some even currently slow down to save engine wear and tear when no chance of a point which provides nothing towards the entertainment... Also the rider in fourth will now have possibly the two best riders from the opposition behind him trying to get passed to score seven points for their team for finishing fourth and fifth and maybe making their team have four of the first five finishes... A rider like Jason Doyle who wins most of his races will, in a four man race, take the lead and for the most part 'coast' around given his ability level. And for that he will score three points... Put him in an 8 man race and I am sure he will set his sights on beating the other four in front after he has seen off the other three like he usually does by the end of lap two or so and try and get the seven.. As mentioned treat an 8 man race as two separate ones for pay like they would do now, ie you beat the three you started alongside and get paid three points worth of money, and maybe run them in heat four, heat eight and twelve (with twelve being the last heat of the night which is nominated).. That would be nine 'normal races' and three 8 man races, meaning exactly the same amount of laps by the riders as a current 15 heat match. With maybe the nominated being even longer than a usual race? Speedway is down to its die hards now so if it was ever going to take a risk and trial something new then surely now is the time to do it? Maybe a Cup competiton could be set up to test the water and get fans' feedback. ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted November 14, 2019 Eight riders seems dangerous to me and too much of a gimmick. Having said that, I’d happily be proven wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chadster 221 Posted November 14, 2019 Different formats for the cup were used in the first 4 years of the British League, 16 heats in 1965-7 and 18 heats in 1968. I always thought it was a retrograde step to go to 13 heats for the cup. The longer format for the cup offered a welcome change from the run of the mill League meetings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,234 Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, DC2 said: Eight riders seems dangerous to me and too much of a gimmick. Having said that, I’d happily be proven wrong. When I first attended the sport it was heavily pushed on billboards around the old Hyde Rd track, and around the country as a whole, as a sport that provided "thrills and spills" for your money. Now it provides a "family sport" for (pro rata linked to inflation) much more money than you paid then.. Whilst never wishing injury to any riders the sport needs to be more "thrills and spills" and less a "family sport" to get people in I would suggest.. As I've said before Ipswich did it and the only downside for me was it was too long so riders got very spread out over the 16 laps.. And in the US when I watched it 'lesser' riders than over here didn't crash any more times than in a four or a two man race as they became accustomed to having so many on a tiny track.. Lots of sports have incorporated what could have been construed as 'gimmicks' over the past 90 years or so of Speedway's existence, often based on the feedback of their fans through either research or simply the fact less started to attend so "something had to be done".. And many of these sports have benefited accordingly.. One thing we know however is that doing the 'same old, same old' each season, sadly, isn't cutting it.. Something 'radical' might put off a few 'die hards' (personally I doubt it as they by the very loyalty they show/prove they will attend 'anything put in front of them') and might just reignite the interest of the (literally) thousands who used to attend regularly (and not too long ago either), and also maybe will attract some interest from new fans.. One thing for certain though is that if we don't try something new then obviously we will never know.. Edited November 15, 2019 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted November 15, 2019 11 hours ago, mikebv said: Most four man races finish with the winner 'miles in front' of second and the rider in last 'miles behind' the rider in third. . Riders second and third are usually the two closest to each other... In short, most of the action is done and dusted by lap one end.. In an 8 man race the rider in fourth cannot tail off like so many do now knowing they can't score as they still will score points for their team, some even currently slow down to save engine wear and tear when no chance of a point which provides nothing towards the entertainment... Also the rider in fourth will now have possibly the two best riders from the opposition behind him trying to get passed to score seven points for their team for finishing fourth and fifth and maybe making their team have four of the first five finishes... A rider like Jason Doyle who wins most of his races will, in a four man race, take the lead and for the most part 'coast' around given his ability level. And for that he will score three points... Put him in an 8 man race and I am sure he will set his sights on beating the other four in front after he has seen off the other three like he usually does by the end of lap two or so and try and get the seven.. As mentioned treat an 8 man race as two separate ones for pay like they would do now, ie you beat the three you started alongside and get paid three points worth of money, and maybe run them in heat four, heat eight and twelve (with twelve being the last heat of the night which is nominated).. That would be nine 'normal races' and three 8 man races, meaning exactly the same amount of laps by the riders as a current 15 heat match. With maybe the nominated being even longer than a usual race? Speedway is down to its die hards now so if it was ever going to take a risk and trial something new then surely now is the time to do it? Maybe a Cup competiton could be set up to test the water and get fans' feedback. ? You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,234 Posted November 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, Trees said: You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! Moto X have 30 riders hitting the first bend, which narrows massively from a wide start and sometimes they crash... Superbikes and Moto GP have 20 or so riders aiming to get the pole position coming out of the start, and sometimes they crash.. Short track has many riders from a staggered start in a race and sometimes they crash. (On UK speedway tracks).. British Speedway with just four riders on track has sadly had fatalities and serious injuries.. It's the nature of Motorsport that there are crashes.. One rider by themselves can crash and suffer severe injury. Having seen 8 man races from two starting points it is very exciting with so much happening over four laps.. And as it doesn't look like any time soon that most tracks can deliver enough exciting racing from four riders to keep the punters coming back often enough, (be it down to track surfaces, or bike characteristics, rider standard etc), then we have to look at the possibility of increasing the excitement value by other means.. Given the 'tenuous' way Speedway is ran as a 'team sport' in the UK, I would suggest most who go regularly attend for 'the racing' rather than the team aspect.. Therefore, focus 1000% on improving the racing as an exciting spectacle which leaves you wanting more... 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris116 755 Posted November 15, 2019 38 minutes ago, Trees said: You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! Hopefully the referee will hit the red light button quickly. I do think that we could get even more injuries and that many riders would avoid a league with races of more than four riders. I know that Ipswich had the 16 lapper and Arena Essex had their 12 lapper but both were once a year events. If we are going to have more than four riders then I would suggest six riders over five laps with only one or two such races in a meeting and the number 1 and 5 riders each having one race from a 10 or 15 yard gate. Something like 1, 2 & 3 in the first race and 4, 5 & 6 in the second race. Knowing how the handicap league racing in the 60's was hated by the riders I don't think today's riders would be willing to take part in such events. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,246 Posted November 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chris116 said: Knowing how the handicap league racing in the 60's was hated by the riders I don't think today's riders would be willing to take part in such events. Much depends upon the grade / ego of riders. IOW have successfully ran handicapped meetings for the past few seasons which have been well received. That said they only really work on racers tracks where passing and momentum can be built up over the laps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwright71 206 Posted November 15, 2019 On 11/14/2019 at 10:37 AM, mikebv said: Isn't it rumoured that each track in the Premiership is getting £50k a season? With a five year deal? Thats £250k 'guaranteed'.. You could do quite a bit of track reshaping with that I would think.. Instead, I fear it will be used to pay more in salaries to riders who won't in five years have progressed the entertainment level of the sport forward in any way that better tracks more conducive to passing would do... Maybe we could all ask our local council to do it for free ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,234 Posted November 15, 2019 55 minutes ago, iwright71 said: Maybe we could all ask our local council to do it for free ! No chance... That would never happen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 1,257 Posted November 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Trees said: You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! In the 60''s the second half final often provided the most passing and the home number one passed two riders with a swoop around the last bend to win at the chequered flag. Everyone was entertained, I went home happy and couldn't wait for next week.... ... when I got older I was told the money was shared equally in the last race and the riders agreed who would pass who. It's when a Promoter promoted entertainment. A big thank you to Bill Bridgett and Mike Parker for my formative years!!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted November 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, Lefty said: In the 60''s the second half final often provided the most passing and the home number one passed two riders with a swoop around the last bend to win at the chequered flag. Everyone was entertained, I went home happy and couldn't wait for next week.... ... when I got older I was told the money was shared equally in the last race and the riders agreed who would pass who. It's when a Promoter promoted entertainment. A big thank you to Bill Bridgett and Mike Parker for my formative years!!! Sometimes it's best not to 'peek behind the curtain'. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 1,257 Posted November 15, 2019 34 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said: Sometimes it's best not to 'peek behind the curtain'. Too true... And when I got even older.. I spannered for a young cub rider who progressed to doubling up... helped try to sort his late payments out etc... often 15+ meetings in arrears... and that was mid 70's..... some things don't really change! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 4,962 Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) Eurosport are running a Black Friday deal on Eurosport Player (for those that can't get Eurosport) 12 months for £19.99 https://promo-gb.eurosportplayer.com/promo/all-sports/black-friday-2019?utm_campaign=UK-EU-E1-EU-C1-G-BAU-DR-W-AllSports-Undefined-161213-Eurosportplayer-P-BMM-BrandCore-NA&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_content=Brand+|+Eurosport+Player+|+BMM&utm_term=%2Beurosport+%2Bplayer&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxqezpM395QIVCrDtCh0YSAlfEAAYASAAEgLEVfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds I don't know for sure but you may also be able to use a VPN to access their other European streams, I think they show EPL in Romania for example. Deal expires on the 2/12/19 Edited November 22, 2019 by iainb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
