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Grachan

Should the points limit be set to the highest team average from the previous season?

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1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'm not convinced this is a good idea at all. The reason I'd say is that the idea is to keep the same 1-7?

If that's the case then Swindon's team would be in trouble as I don't see a great deal of improvement average wise in their team so would end up stagnant. 

While every other team are able to strengthen significantly that it would put Swindon in danger of not making the play-offs at all. 

If Swindon are allowed to sign whoever they like up to last seasons average then wouldn't that defeat the objective of allowing teams averages to be set by the title winning team so that they can keep the same 7??

If the latter is the case, we may as well stick with the 42.50

Is this perhaps not the main point? Swindon's team that finished the 2019 season was built within a 42.5 point limit, so why could they not be allowed continuity, even if the points limit remains at 42.5? 

Edited by Reliant Robin
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35 minutes ago, Grachan said:

It probably is at the moment, although I'm not sure how that is connected to the point I made about retaining the same side not being compulsory.

It's relevant in that the idea has come about because fans, promoters etc get frustrated that they're unable to keep their title winning 7 for continuity.

If the team building average is allowed to be (for example) 46.78 and the title winning team makes 3 changes, these changes would only be made, in the main, because they have more chance of increasing their individual average over the rider's from the previous season. 

This then would make it even more difficult for the chasing pack to build a team that would be competitive.

In principle the idea is ok but the reality will be very different. 

Sticking to a set team average of 42.50 or 45.00 make far more sense. 

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The final averages of the 7 Premiership teams is approx 42.5.  Also the average of the top and bottom clubs is around 42points+.

If the average of the top team is taken ie 46+ then its not simply a question of rider availability for the other 6 (or 7) teams building to that level. Its also about cost!!

All clubs operate to their own individual and varied budget based on their very different fixed and variable costs as well as income.

Comparisons with other sports are frankly ridiculous as there are many players of a similar standard around and plentiful monies around to be able to afford them.

In order for the successful teams to not be penalised too much then maybe the points limit should be increased by 2.5% with the same 2.5% discount being for ALL British riders?

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1 hour ago, Grachan said:

It should be pointed out that, even if the average was set to the highest average in the league, it wouldn't be compulsory for that team to retain the same riders. Just an option.

 

That bit doesn’t work for me.

If Swindon re-sign the same seven riders their team limit, as the highest one, should be the new limit.

If they do not re-sign the same seven then it goes down to the next highest averaged team to see if they want to sign the same seven and so on until we get to 42 in default.

The main reason for the rule would be to encourage rider and fan loyalty. In the hope that fan numbers rise and the sport can survive.

Equalisation would be possible if appropriate riders were available for the other clubs but it would be secondary to the principle of encouraging loyalty.  

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48 minutes ago, Flappy said:

45 average for me. 

AVERAGES are just numbers on a piece of paper. This isn't a computer game. Riders are human beings, averages go up and down. And if a team like Peterborough are 10 points adrift of the limit trying to sign one rider to fit that void isn't sensible, practical or even necessary. Their team building options increase not decrease and can enable them to work within a budget.

At the very least the notion of being able to keep a team from one season to another should be elementary.

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32 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

That bit doesn’t work for me.

If Swindon re-sign the same seven riders their team limit, as the highest one, should be the new limit.

If they do not re-sign the same seven then it goes down to the next highest averaged team to see if they want to sign the same seven and so on until we get to 42 in default.

The main reason for the rule would be to encourage rider and fan loyalty. In the hope that fan numbers rise and the sport can survive.

Equalisation would be possible if appropriate riders were available for the other clubs but it would be secondary to the principle of encouraging loyalty.  

NOT as I see it ... for 2020 the limit is the figure attained by Swindon this year. They can keep that team but, if they wish to change it, cannot exceed it. 

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48 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

The final averages of the 7 Premiership teams is approx 42.5.  Also the average of the top and bottom clubs is around 42points+.

If the average of the top team is taken ie 46+ then its not simply a question of rider availability for the other 6 (or 7) teams building to that level. Its also about cost!!

 

 

They don’t have to build to that level.

All but Boro were competitive this year and Swindon hardly won any away matches and didn’t run away with the league.

So there’s no case for saying that every club would have to sign Vaculik, Zmarzlik or Dudek and risk bankruptcy to be competitive.

One or two marginally better riders could overturn Swindon.

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2 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

NOT as I see it ... for 2020 the limit is the figure attained by Swindon this year. They can keep that team but, if they wish to change it, cannot exceed it. 

 

I don’t agree. You’re making it about figures regardless of riders and consequently you’re not encouraging loyalty.

What’s the point in allowing Swindon to sign seven new riders to 46.34 rather than to 42?

 

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15 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

I don’t agree. You’re making it about figures regardless of riders and consequently you’re not encouraging loyalty.

What’s the point in allowing Swindon to sign seven new riders to 46.34 rather than to 42?

 

Interesting point.

Kepping the same riders for continuity and loyalty relies on the clubs wanting to do so.

If a team could continually sign 7 new riders up to their previous years average and continue to improve exponentially - you could end up with a 1-7 of GP only riders in theory.

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1 hour ago, Reliant Robin said:

Is this perhaps not the main point? Swindon's team that finished the 2019 season was built within a 42.5 point limit, so why could they not be allowed continuity, even if the points limit remains at 42.5? 

The Swindon team that finished 2019 wasnt built to the 42.50 limit

It involved mid season changes bringing in perceived better riders at the right time to replace under performing riders before their averages dropped whilst the others were increasing their averages

If EVERY declaration meant having to return to the 42.50 limit regardless of whether it was a single, double or more change switch then you point would ring true

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I think it's more important to sign the right riders, rather than whatever their average might be. If you sign seven riders who are on the up and they average 45, they'll beat seven riders who are on the way down or static and who can't be gelled with enthusiasm and unity but also average 45. The former generally costs more to assemble though.

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I’d prefer a much higher limit at the start of the season and 42.5 should be a minimum. However the lack of riders wanting to come may mean some teams might not be able too.

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28 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

The Swindon team that finished 2019 wasnt built to the 42.50 limit

It involved mid season changes bringing in perceived better riders at the right time to replace under performing riders before their averages dropped whilst the others were increasing their averages

If EVERY declaration meant having to return to the 42.50 limit regardless of whether it was a single, double or more change switch then you point would ring true

Exactly. that is caused by having a low limit. The teams that are able to make their changes at the right time and use the averages to their advantages can rise to the top, whilst, at the same time, other sides can find themselves restricted by the same averages.

Once Jensen came in for Swindon and put 3 points on his starting average and rise to the fourth best rider in the league, the other sides were helpless because they couldn't bring in someone to match that as the averages topped them. Ipswich, for example, brought Iversen in, but had to bring Sergeant in at the bottom to allow it.

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31 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

The Swindon team that finished 2019 wasnt built to the 42.50 limit

It involved mid season changes bringing in perceived better riders at the right time to replace under performing riders before their averages dropped whilst the others were increasing their averages

If EVERY declaration meant having to return to the 42.50 limit regardless of whether it was a single, double or more change switch then you point would ring true

It wasn't built within the points limit through 2019? I'm sure that would have been picked up somewhere along the line.

Swindon averages effective 18th July - total of 42.39. Same team that finished the season

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