workington ..

[M.D 463]

57 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Oxford doing ok straight into Championship. Go NL then Championship won’t get a crowd kick. Should go straight into Championship.

The start up costs to go straight into championship level are eye watering..

[HGould 2,213]

3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Oxford doing ok straight into Championship. Go NL then Championship won’t get a crowd kick. Should go straight into Championship.

I think it depends who/how is funding it.

Oxford are doing phenominally well but seem to have a significant budget behind them over a few years and it will be interesting to see how those figues stack up in year 2 if the team sn't delivering better results on the Track. I think too that they are pulling in some support from Swindon, Reading , even Coventry when I was there , that have been starved of Speedway for so long. A far bigger catchment area than Workington as an example.

The scenarios of the last few Clubs to either move up or change hands and be in CL, Brummies / Eastbourne / Newcastle seems to be a case of good intentions on limited budgets and possibly a nievity in terms of the costs involved and the cost to build competitive Teams and of course Covid did no one any favours. Hearts ruling heads and the resultant struggles.

It may be better to have a low budget and lower breakeven in the NDL for a year, and get everything set up and working before making that move up with some proven indication of the level of support and level of sponsorship.

The other plain fact is that it's easier to be a big fish in a small pond especially with a competitive team than it is a little fish in a big pond with a team that's not competitive or good enough to win trophies where fans who mostly want success over the spectacle of the product can quickly drift away and Workington lets not forget WON everything going in 2018 yet still folded as the support had drfted away for whatever reason.

The set up at Workington looks fantastic but as someone has said will need to bed in and be gradually improved. Imagine the foundations they could build with 1000 fans in NDL for a year; as opposed to 1000 in CL and just surviving probably. 

 

[gazzac 1,013]

5 minutes ago, HGould said:

I think it depends who/how is funding it.

Oxford are doing phenominally well but seem to have a significant budget behind them over a few years and it will be interesting to see how those figues stack up in year 2 if the team sn't delivering better results on the Track. I think too that they are pulling in some support from Swindon, Reading , even Coventry when I was there , that have been starved of Speedway for so long. A far bigger catchment area than Workington as an example.

The scenarios of the last few Clubs to either move up or change hands and be in CL, Brummies / Eastbourne / Newcastle seems to be a case of good intentions on limited budgets and possibly a nievity in terms of the costs involved and the cost to build competitive Teams and of course Covid did no one any favours. Hearts ruling heads and the resultant struggles.

It may be better to have a low budget and lower breakeven in the NDL for a year, and get everything set up and working before making that move up with some proven indication of the level of support and level of sponsorship.

The other plain fact is that it's easier to be a big fish in a small pond especially with a competitive team than it is a little fish in a big pond with a team that's not competitive or good enough to win trophies where fans who mostly want success over the spectacle of the product can quickly drift away and Workington lets not forget WON everything going in 2018 yet still folded as the support had drfted away for whatever reason.

The set up at Workington looks fantastic but as someone has said will need to bed in and be gradually improved. Imagine the foundations they could build with 1000 fans in NDL for a year; as opposed to 1000 in CL and just surviving probably. 

 

I'll put my old record on again ( sorry for the umpteenth time ) but we had the perfect NL back in 2015/18 and was some where near the true level of middling British speedway, certainly for the likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne, ideal for Newcastle/Workington/ IOW etc as well, need to get back to that level, whether it's current NL+ or Championship lite. 

[HGould 2,213]

31 minutes ago, gazzac said:

I'll put my old record on again ( sorry for the umpteenth time ) but we had the perfect NL back in 2015/18 and was some where near the true level of middling British speedway, certainly for the likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne, ideal for Newcastle/Workington/ IOW etc as well, need to get back to that level, whether it's current NL+ or Championship lite. 

I agree 100%

Im certain that teams were effectively forced to move up after 2018 as the NDL was too strong for some in charge of the sport, and the bigger NDL clubs were threatened with a 35 point limit for 2019 so clubs like mine and Eastbourne would have been decimated. 

They then made the entry for us both and others later on  subsequently ridiculously expensive and from memory only approved both in to the League relatively late, certainly Brummies were late to be approved. Like Plymouth in 2021 only after Somerset pulled out and Kent too in 2021.

[gazzac 1,013]

28 minutes ago, HGould said:

I agree 100%

Im certain that teams were effectively forced to move up after 2018 as the NDL was too strong for some in charge of the sport, and the bigger NDL clubs were threatened with a 35 point limit for 2019 so clubs like mine and Eastbourne would have been decimated. 

They then made the entry for us both and others later on  subsequently ridiculously expensive and from memory only approved both in to the League relatively late, certainly Brummies were late to be approved. Like Plymouth in 2021 only after Somerset pulled out and Kent too in 2021.

Spot on, bad decisions for speedway. 

[Jaizer 2,863]

3 minutes ago, gazzac said:

Spot on, bad decisions for speedway. 

It's stopped the production line of talent too. Eastbourne had 4/5 good kids coming through from one track alone. Now looking at NDL whose a really top prospect? Sam hagon maybe? At that time were 10-15 now riding CL or EL. It felt like a help to CL as they were ready for step up whereas now the jump is huge again 

[gazzac 1,013]

5 minutes ago, Jaizer said:

It's stopped the production line of talent too. Eastbourne had 4/5 good kids coming through from one track alone. Now looking at NDL whose a really top prospect? Sam hagon maybe? At that time were 10-15 now riding CL or EL. It felt like a help to CL as they were ready for step up whereas now the jump is huge again 

And we (Eastbourne) have lost them all, always envisaged Brennen and Edward's being heat leaders in a couple of years ( or sooner) bringing back the feeling we had in the Dugard /Norris era ....

Edited July 18, 2022 by gazzac

[Jaizer 2,863]

4 minutes ago, gazzac said:

And we (Eastbourne) have lost them all, always envisaged Brennen and Edward's being heat leaders in a couple of years ( or sooner) bringing back the feeling we had in the Dugard /Norris era ....

Never say never. Although our asset now I know Tom still has plenty links to Eastbourne and would love to ride there again. 

[Fortythirtyeight 839]

1 hour ago, gazzac said:

I'll put my old record on again ( sorry for the umpteenth time ) but we had the perfect NL back in 2015/18 and was some where near the true level of middling British speedway, certainly for the likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne, ideal for Newcastle/Workington/ IOW etc as well, need to get back to that level, whether it's current NL+ or Championship lite. 

Yes, the good old days when a number of NL clubs paid certain riders Championship wages , yes, that’s the way forward , get rid of the likes of Buxton , the only club paying their riders the agreed rates but could not compete with the Birminghams, Eastbourne’s, Cradleys etc.

There needs to be a balance. There wasn’t one then, there isn’t one now. It’s gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Will it ever change?

[gazzac 1,013]

2 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Yes, the good old days when a number of NL clubs paid certain riders Championship wages , yes, that’s the way forward , get rid of the likes of Buxton , the only club paying their riders the agreed rates but could not compete with the Birminghams, Eastbourne’s, Cradleys etc.

There needs to be a balance. There wasn’t one then, there isn’t one now. It’s gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Will it ever change?

But overall a far cheaper option than Championship, the likes of Buxton haven't returned to the current NL cheaper option I suppose. As you say some teams will always lose out, but looking forward more teams would do a NL + or disappear like Buxton/Newcastle etc.

[crescent girl 1,905]

4 hours ago, M.D said:

The start up costs to go straight into championship level are eye watering..

Correct.   Huge -- really huge -- difference in operating costs.    NDL will be fine for a couple of year, build up a nest-egg of funding, pay off start-up bills

[singy13 372]

27 minutes ago, crescent girl said:

Correct.   Huge -- really huge -- difference in operating costs.    NDL will be fine for a couple of year, build up a nest-egg of funding, pay off start-up bills

Go on then marras back up your words and give us some reasonable guesstimates............. + or - a few k will be fine.

[M.D 463]

46 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Go on then marras back up your words and give us some reasonable guesstimates............. + or - a few k will be fine.

It would be somewhat crass to put actual figures on a public forum but trust me, the BSPL costs alone are not exactly welcoming for a new promotion at either level..

[mikebv 10,261]

6 minutes ago, M.D said:

It would be somewhat crass to put actual figures on a public forum but trust me, the BSPL costs alone are not exactly welcoming for a new promotion at either level..

As, dont forget, every new club in whatever league is a threat to the teams already there.. 

They might even use some of the riders currently contracted to other teams..

And. Heaven forbid, they go on to win one of the leagues..

Leagues rendered almost worthless by the very operating model that those incumbent "custodians of the sport" utilise, but they will never see that...

The phrase "you couldnt make it up" was never so apt as it is for UK Speedway..

Best of luck with your plans, the more teams out there "spreading the word" has to be more beneficial for the sport as a whole long term, than having old Speedway clubs with decades of running the sport successfully lying idle...

[singy13 372]

7 minutes ago, M.D said:

It would be somewhat crass to put actual figures on a public forum but trust me, the BSPL costs alone are not exactly welcoming for a new promotion at either level..

OK I bow to your superior speedway knowledge.  It's just so annoying that a sport that is clearly dying on its wheels and yet those in control (ho, ho, ho) i.e. the scary BSPL seemingly make it so difficult for any new promotion - why, why, why?

I will have everything that's possible crossed in hope that the Worky Comets manage to overcome the costs and fly around the Northside arena....................but who's gonna be left to provide opposition?