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My understanding was that the BSPA Directors were not satisfied with the business plan that Plymouth put forward and that couldn’t guarantee the required bond would be lodged by 31/12

Also for the Chairmanship some clubs wanted Damian Bates to do it but with his business interests couldn’t commit to it.

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So, these last 2 pages based on the statement from the AGM is peoples opinions.

 There is no fact that if Newcastle do not run then Plymouth will take their place needing a restructuring of the North/South divide.

With regards to the Chairmanship, Rob Godfrey has been fair & put forward a case that the rules were adhered to that were put in place at the 2017 AGM for the 2018 season. Some teams were not present at that AGM but they should have stuck to the rules in place rather than being confrontational in changing race nights when the fixtures were made. Damian Bates made it known this year that his involvement in speedway made it difficult with his business interests, probably being similar in 2020.

 Has anyone posted true facts yet on the AGM that is not their own opinion?

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The new system for the Championship is based on how all American professional team sports work bar MLS. The leagues are split into conferences and a team's results, while including games against teams from other conferences the league is split into several sections and a team only competes with the teams in its own conference for play-off spots.

There's nothing to say in the AGM report that the following is due to happen which is worrying, but if not they are iin trouble..

So we have 12 teams, including either Newcastle or Plymouth. These are split into two conferences/sub-divisions. All 12 race 32 matches, 20 against their fellow conference members and 12 against sides from the other conference. 

Here's the key - you run two league tables, one for each conference and the top three from each qualify for the play-offs. Now, if we only had an odd number of teams it still works. Say if we have five in the north and six in the south the northern teams ride 28 times, 16 against fellow northerners and still 12 against the southerners, making 28. The southerners will still race 20 times against their fellow conference members, but only 10 against the northerners, making 30 matches.

So, at season's end, five northern teams will have ridden 28 matches but the southerners 30. If there was just one table that would be ridiculous but if all five teams competing for the three play-off places are only compared with each other it doesn't matter if the third placed team qualifies with fewer points than the fourth placed team in the south it's probably due to the latter having ridden more matches.

Run two league tables, one for teams that ride 28 times and one for those who ride 30 matches and take the top three from each. Whether the north division races 30, 32 or 132 matches, as long as in league terms they're only competing with teams that have ridden the same matches it'll be academic. Running one league table is where the problems start.

And you thought the match points system was complex.....

The logic of Edinburgh travelling twice to Glasgow but only once to Kent is obvious. The alternative is to run a one home, one away league plus a pair of early season regional leagues as we have before - and what was the verdict? Dismissed as 'meaningless. 

Realistically the only way to prove the  point is to run the season, let people realise that it's only the teams in their own half of the country that they're initially competing with in league terms - until the essential play-offs.

One thing that gets avoided here is, say we run with 12 tracks in 2020 then by some miracle we get an application from a revived Rye House, or Oxford or even a better funded and planned Plymouth bid for 2021 they wouldn't have to be rejected for fear of running a league with odd numbers!

As far as the supporters are concerned until the play-offs they are competing in a five or six team league with extra competitive league matches to give a 14 or 16 match home schedule which is a damn sight better than the paltry 10 in 2019!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by RobMcCaffery
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Another agm  which does not take on the real problems of Speedway moving forward.

essentially status quo and the promoters burying their heads in the sand once again.

i despair with the BSPA

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How has he arrived at the conclusion that supporters don't want change? Has each club been active in getting this feedback from actual humans? You know those of us who actually go through the turnstile 

It's just a blatant lie. It's a cop out to appease people but I see through the s##t.

They haven't got a clue. Non of them. 

This sport is never coming back. It's just drip fed life support.

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4 hours ago, acef said:

How has he arrived at the conclusion that supporters don't want change? Has each club been active in getting this feedback from actual humans? You know those of us who actually go through the turnstile 

It's just a blatant lie. It's a cop out to appease people but I see through the s##t.

They haven't got a clue. Non of them. 

This sport is never coming back. It's just drip fed life support.

Of course it is, but let's be honest we know that anyway..

They have done pretty much the only thing they can..

ie deliver more meetings with 'local' rivals without increasing any costs..

Rob was 100% right when he said fans don't want "tinkering"...

They want radical change!!!! :rolleyes:

Simply not going to happen though..

It is what it is, it won't change because it either can't or those who run it are not capable of making it happen...

Lets be fair, if things could change then those who run the sport would have done so by now such are the glaring deficiencies...

We have what we have, (again), survival and getting everyone through to the end of the season is the 'measure of success'. "Bringing everyone to the table"..

Rinse and Repeat once more just like it has been for at least a decade, probably more, and will be 'ad infinitum'...

Just accept it, it would make life easier.. :D

And with the SGP, the SON, the SEC, Poland and Sweden beamed live into our living rooms for a great many weeks of the season, we can still watch a host of excellent, 'properly ran' Speedway....

And can then get the added bonus of watching the domestic offering off Eurosport for what it is...

And with the NSS, Peterborough, Swindon (and Sheffield with Andrew Meridith now doing the track), showing quite a few matches, I am sure there should be some very decent racing from the UK..

Sit back in your armchair, crack open a can, and just enjoy watching the racing...

Since 2000 in just 19 years, TWELVE clubs have gone (maybe THIRTEEN if Newcastle don't run) and only SIX have come in, therefore lets make the most of what's left...

(While we still can looking at that closure rate trend)...

Edited by mikebv
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7 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

So, these last 2 pages based on the statement from the AGM is peoples opinions.

 There is no fact that if Newcastle do not run then Plymouth will take their place needing a restructuring of the North/South divide.

With regards to the Chairmanship, Rob Godfrey has been fair & put forward a case that the rules were adhered to that were put in place at the 2017 AGM for the 2018 season. Some teams were not present at that AGM but they should have stuck to the rules in place rather than being confrontational in changing race nights when the fixtures were made. Damian Bates made it known this year that his involvement in speedway made it difficult with his business interests, probably being similar in 2020.

 Has anyone posted true facts yet on the AGM that is not their own opinion?

I would have said that about 99% of comment on here is opinion, and about 50% of that opinion is speculation.

But if Newcastle don't run, the northern teams will have two less league fixtures than the southern ones and that's in the same league. That can be remedied overnight by allowing Plymouth in and changing the groupings slightly. 

My own view of the enforced change of race nights in 2018 - after the season had started and after fixtures had not only been published but run -  is that it was one of the worst examples of self interest that I have ever seen in speedway, and that's in a sport where self interest is nigh on all encompassing.  

Personally, I think the regional split is a good idea even if that means a lopsided number of times that teams will race against each other. 22 fixtures - it would be 24 if Plymouth were accepted - is too many, even if all other competitions were dropped. It allows more meetings as a whole, more local meetings creating more revenue and does not substantially increase travelling costs. 

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11 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

The new system for the Championship is based on how all American professional team sports work bar MLS. The leagues are split into conferences and a team's results, while including games against teams from other conferences the league is split into several sections and a team only competes with the teams in its own conference for play-off spots.

Yes. The only way such a system makes sense is to run it on a conference basis, in the style of American sports. Anything else would be madness. 

My expectations that speedway has chosen the sane option are fairly low.

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if they are going to persist with the fixture plan i hope the regional fixtures are kept far apart -  if Redcar race Newcastle in April - i wouldn't want to see them again til at least July

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As there has been no attempt to address the situations of doubling-up and guests, the tinkering with the format will make little difference to the dwindling and ageing band of spectators.

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Do the promotions  really listen ?

 I remember about 7 years ago when Adam started riding in the UK one of these “how do we gauge public opinion” threads came up on here and I suggested a simple questionaire slipped into a program and a suggestion box near the exit. 

 

Most if not all people who buy a program have a pen (or can borrow one). A few questions filled in with their contact details at the end isn’t the hardest thing in the world. 

1, you know really what the punters think and can maybe act on some of the suggestions 

2, with their contact details you straight away have a database where you can contact people with offers etc. 

its really not that hard eh ? 

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48 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

Do the promotions  really listen ?

 I remember about 7 years ago when Adam started riding in the UK one of these “how do we gauge public opinion” threads came up on here and I suggested a simple questionaire slipped into a program and a suggestion box near the exit. 

 

Most if not all people who buy a program have a pen (or can borrow one). A few questions filled in with their contact details at the end isn’t the hardest thing in the world. 

1, you know really what the punters think and can maybe act on some of the suggestions 

2, with their contact details you straight away have a database where you can contact people with offers etc. 

its really not that hard eh ? 

It is frustrating. A sport or anything that loses customers must surely want to know why.

Speedway's decline has been gradual since the mid-80s, and whatever's happened to folk who don't attend anymore. There are weirdos like me who just cling on for old times' sake. And I get called names for saying why I don't attend anymore.

But the thousands of people that are allowed to disappear because of various reasons, and yet promoters just get over it by increasing the admissions for the ever-growing small number to cover. Without finding out those reasons, the promoters have a few days at the AGM to sort out the future (for next season) and believe their ideas will halt the slide which they have no idea why the slide is happening.

You need feedback. Perhaps a site could be in place for feedback, for old fans, new fans and those who may be getting frustrated. Promote the feedback forum at the track, so those who attend can go back and report their findings. But I guess promoters are fans, and merely wash away any voice of criticism. "If you don't like it, don't come again."

There so many reasons why people might stop attending. But no one knows those reasons.

And that is what's frustrating.

Edited by moxey63
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36 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

Do the promotions  really listen ?

 I remember about 7 years ago when Adam started riding in the UK one of these “how do we gauge public opinion” threads came up on here and I suggested a simple questionaire slipped into a program and a suggestion box near the exit. 

 

Most if not all people who buy a program have a pen (or can borrow one). A few questions filled in with their contact details at the end isn’t the hardest thing in the world. 

1, you know really what the punters think and can maybe act on some of the suggestions 

2, with their contact details you straight away have a database where you can contact people with offers etc. 

its really not that hard eh ? 

100% agree, obvious isnt it?

And in these days of the internet it's even easier..

Email addresses galore from which to target your offers to you customers!!

BV have a scanner which reads your ticket. Therefore why not issue everyone with a card which they use to put their admission on? Could do it via the bank on line so no need to use the ticket office. Scan in and it deducts the money off the card..

And when you miss a few (they will now know as you haven't scanned), then that's the time for the Aces to make contact to find out why, and get you back again..

Attend say five on the run and you get a discount automatically from your next meeting, (or maybe a discount at the shop to encourage you to purchase something)..

The whole sport is marketed on a very low key local level by individual clubs, using well meaning I am sure amateurs..

It needs to be done collectively on a national level, professionally through pooling resources and sharing the information..

It isn't really too difficult to find out what your customer wants (and probably more importantly doesn't want), in this modern 24/7 media world..

You just have to seek out the info..

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15 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

IIt is frustrating. A sport or anything that loses customers must surely want to know why.

Speedway's decline has been gradual since the mid-80s, and whatever's happened to folk who don't attend anymore. There are weirdos like me who just cling on for old times' sake. And I get called names for saying why I don't attend anymore.

But the thousands of people that are allowed to disappear because of various reasons, and yet promoters just get over it by increasing the admissions for the ever-growing small number to cover. Without finding out those reasons, the promoters have a few days at the AGM to sort out the future (for next season) and believe their ideas will halt the slide which they have no idea why the slide is happening.

You need feedback. Perhaps a site could be in place for feedback, for old fans, new fans and those who may be getting frustrated. Promote the feedback forum at the track, so those who attend can go back and report their findings. But I guess promoters are fans, and merely wash away any voice of criticism. "If you don't like it, don't come again."

There so many reasons why people might stop attending. But no one knows those reasons.

And that is what's frustrating.

Old, old ground Moxey sadly..

The reasons why the decline has taken place are obvious I am sure to EVERY promoter..

The issue though is they cannot fix most of them because the oil tanker has gone much too far in the wrong direction to even stop it, never mind turn it around..

We have what we have, so let's just make the most of it..

And on the plus side. There's never been more TV coverage than there is now so you can still watch 'proper Speedway' virtually every week of the Season.

And if you don't have a stream for the Polish Leagues then get one!!B)

Edited by mikebv
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