Bagpuss 10,779 Posted November 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Then do away with doubling up I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that but I expect you would get riders claiming they can’t afford to race without both incomes and you wonder what riders would cone into our league set up to make the numbers up. Doubling up has changed an awful lot from when it was first introduced and catered for young British riders only. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted November 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Then do away with doubling up Doubling up is not a problem with fixed race nights, which in any event makes sense to avoid clashes with the foreign leagues. Although I'd rather have one league with no doubling up! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted November 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, DC2 said: Doubling up is not a problem with fixed race nights, which in any event makes sense to avoid clashes with the foreign leagues. Although I'd rather have one league with no doubling up! To me, doubling up is a problem To me, fixed race nights are a problem To me, one league senior league, plus a development league, is a must 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dog 413 Posted November 19, 2019 I've never had a problem with doubling up because, and I'll use Chris Harris as an example, Ipswich don't race against Birmingham because their in different leagues. You should be backing the rider that rides for your club and not because he rides for a different club in a different league. I also think that given the lower crowds nowadays, riders generally need both leagues in Britain to earn a living. Although riders say cost is going up every year, it would be interesting to know how many of them get jobs during the off-season.... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambo 1,340 Posted November 19, 2019 39 minutes ago, The Dog said: I've never had a problem with doubling up because, and I'll use Chris Harris as an example, Ipswich don't race against Birmingham because their in different leagues. You should be backing the rider that rides for your club and not because he rides for a different club in a different league. I also think that given the lower crowds nowadays, riders generally need both leagues in Britain to earn a living. Although riders say cost is going up every year, it would be interesting to know how many of them get jobs during the off-season.... Totally agree with the post, and particularly relevant is your last sentence. At a recent NSSC meeting Referee Phil Griffin, who by the way provided many laughs in his talk-in, was particularly scathing in the attitude of a particular CL Heat Leader who thought that around 140 actual 'working days' in a 5 month season should allow him to live for 12 months. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted November 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, Gambo said: Totally agree with the post, and particularly relevant is your last sentence. At a recent NSSC meeting Referee Phil Griffin, who by the way provided many laughs in his talk-in, was particularly scathing in the attitude of a particular CL Heat Leader who thought that around 140 actual 'working days' in a 5 month season should allow him to live for 12 months. That has been the problem now for a few years and unless the bspa address the league set up it will continue. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,272 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) An interesting article with AdrIan Smith of BV in the Speedway Star current edition re some of his thoughts on the future... It is noticeable that those who come into the sport without any 'emotional attachment' to any particular rider or team through either being a sponsor or fan, seem to look at the sport far more objectively and dispassionately, and therefore make far more clearer decisions based on good business practice.. He seems to have a lot of ideas, (many of which contributors to here will recognise as they have been mentioned on probably far too many occasions!), including the need for an 'independent body' to improve the sports credibilty and bring it in line with other sports.. He mentioned that he hoped several topics would be raised at the AGM, and also talked about his concern that changing points levels every year doesn't help the sport progress, and, as we saw from the AGM press release, that is being looked into with the Champs possibly setting the level the season after next. So maybe some of his ideas are starting to get some support and cut through? I would imagine though overall it will be a 'hard sell' for him to convince those who are 'too close' to the 'emotional' and 'hobby' aspect of the sport to agree to change.. He does though come across as a shrewd man who finds a way to get most things done, so more power to his elbow, (and those of a like mind).. Overall a very interesting read and in general another excellent issue again.. UK Speedway is VERY fortunate to have such a professional magazine cover it's output.. Edited November 19, 2019 by mikebv 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghosty 500 Posted November 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Midland Red said: To me, doubling up is a problem To me, fixed race nights are a problem To me, one league senior league, plus a development league, is a must Totally agree with the first & second comments, but for me we need 3 leagues of different levels. Currently the Championship has to many riders that should ONLY be in the Premiership. Lots of reasons for this but stopping young talent progressing is one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted November 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Midland Red said: To me, doubling up is a problem To me, fixed race nights are a problem To me, one league senior league, plus a development league, is a must Other than availability for some clubs, meaning they stay in a lower league, I don't see why fixed race nights are a problem. In fact, it has improved some of the problems that were occurring with riders being abroad or riding in lower leagues. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Grachan said: Other than availability for some clubs, meaning they stay in a lower league, I don't see why fixed race nights are a problem. In fact, it has improved some of the problems that were occurring with riders being abroad or riding in lower leagues. Put one club (Rye House) out of business, another (Sheffield) up for sale and forced another (Poole) to change leagues. It should not be the case that we risk the very existence of our teams for no reason other than riders doubling their pay and they all seemed to manage before we had it so why not now ? Edited November 19, 2019 by Halifaxtiger 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, mikebv said: An interesting article with AdrIan Smith of BV in the Speedway Star current edition re some of his thoughts on the future... It is noticeable that those who come into the sport without any 'emotional attachment' to any particular rider or team through either being a sponsor or fan, seem to look at the sport far more objectively and dispassionately, and therefore make far more clearer decisions based on good business practice.. He seems to have a lot of ideas, (many of which contributors to here will recognise as they have been mentioned on probably far too many occasions!), including the need for an 'independent body' to improve the sports credibilty and bring it in line with other sports.. He mentioned that he hoped several topics would be raised at the AGM, and also talked about his concern that changing points levels every year doesn't help the sport progress, and, as we saw from the AGM press release, that is being looked into with the Champs possibly setting the level the season after next. So maybe some of his ideas are starting to get some support and cut through? I would imagine though overall it will be a 'hard sell' for him to convince those who are 'too close' to the 'emotional' and 'hobby' aspect of the sport to agree to change.. He does though come across as a shrewd man who finds a way to get most things done, so more power to his elbow, (and those of a like mind).. Overall a very interesting read and in general another excellent issue again.. UK Speedway is VERY fortunate to have such a professional magazine cover it's output.. Seeing him sweeping water off the track (in his shirtsleeves while it was still raining) at a Colts meeting hugely impressed me. I can certainly think of one other who would do that but many who most certainly wouldn't. I am reasonably sure that he and Barry Bishop very much see eye to eye. No surprise there. Edited November 19, 2019 by Halifaxtiger 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted November 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Bagpuss said: I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that but I expect you would get riders claiming they can’t afford to race without both incomes and you wonder what riders would cone into our league set up to make the numbers up. Doubling up has changed an awful lot from when it was first introduced and catered for young British riders only. Some of them - Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls spring to mind - were able to ride speedway for years without doubling up. The only thing that has changed is that they have seen a way to substantially increase earnings. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,779 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: Some of them - Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls spring to mind - were able to ride speedway for years without doubling up. The only thing that has changed is that they have seen a way to substantially increase earnings. They did but they rode in Poland and Sweden back then, unfortunately very few do now and don’t seem to have the drive to do so when there are easier pounds and pennies to come by in the UK. If it was up to me doubling up would be for Brits of a certain age only eg U23. The whole thing has very much got out of hand with lots of foreign riders using the system too. Edited November 19, 2019 by Bagpuss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 9,456 Posted November 19, 2019 52 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: Some of them - Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls spring to mind - were able to ride speedway for years without doubling up. The only thing that has changed is that they have seen a way to substantially increase earnings. I believe that their earnings in this country will have dropped a fair bit as well as them not earning abroad. I think many on here would be surprised by who work elsewhere and just how much riders earn. There aren't too many pulling in better money from Speedway than the people watching them do from their jobs. Things have changed for Speedway riders with far less jobs that are able to fit around the sport than the old days which makes working difficult during the season for many, many others still manage it though. While fans talk about the good old days of a rider turning up with one bike on a rack the reality is that these days any rider turning up with one bike that is less than pristine will be slaughtered if their equipment costs the team points. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwright71 206 Posted November 19, 2019 On 11/18/2019 at 3:41 PM, RPNY said: Going forward would like to see the Premiership with 8 team, all ride against each other once home & once away. GP Riders are a non starter pretty much so dont even worry about set race nights. Just do whatever is best for each club to maximize crowd potential. 2 U23 British reserves for each team. Proper Cup competition with final at a neutral venue (Perry Barr maybe) help on a non GP Saturday in September. Ditto for the Championship with the Cup Final somewhere like Belle Vue or Peterborough (depending on what teams get to the Final) All other meaningless competitions forgotten about as they rarely attract decent crowds. Just a local friendly to kick start the season before the league campaign gets going. Most important though is a decent track so the boys can race and a fair price point so family's and young kids/students/young adults can go. Its really not a case of re inventing the wheel. 7 home fixtures a year plus a couple in the cup is not enough for promoters, many who rent their stadiums have to give a guarantee on the minimum number of meetings, 8 to 10 a season won't be enough, or for that matter riders riding in only 1 league. Also Cup finals on neutral tracks won't work, they must be at the homes of the contesting teams. The days of large speedway away followings are long gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites