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4320 scoring has, for me at least, made the PL Pairs an exciting meeting to watch for a number of years, with good races at the back trying not to finish last.

the biggest downside i see with it though is when there is an exclusion/fall especially come semi final time 

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48 minutes ago, stevehone said:

4320 scoring has, for me at least, made the PL Pairs an exciting meeting to watch for a number of years, with good races at the back trying not to finish last.

the biggest downside i see with it though is when there is an exclusion/fall especially come semi final time 

Debbie Hancock might agree with you on that last point! 

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5 hours ago, Najjer said:

To an extent - but using your example of football, isn't this just the same as a team winning every game in the group stages, beating everybody 5-0 in the knockout stages and then losing to a team whose scraped into the final?

In most World Cup type tournaments, the finalists have usually not competed against all the other teams earlier in the tournament, and have often not met themselves until the Final. It's therefore not possible to say they've met the strongest teams, regardless of their early results.

In the standard Best Pairs format, every team will have already ridden against every team before reaching the Final - in fact twice in the SON. It's therefore a bit farcical to decide the result on the basis of a contrived scoring system after 43 previous heats. 

5 hours ago, Najjer said:

My personal view is that a 'final race' is always needed as it mantains excitement and unpredictability right until the final heat of the night. Otherwise the meeting could be over by the half way point and it creates abit of a non event and anti climax.

You could have still have a Final, but give the team scoring more points in the earlier rounds the advantage of a point or something.

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4 hours ago, iainb said:

As it seems that Russia are now the emerging nation in Speedway, perhaps it's time for a return to the 4/5 rider format?

Can't think it would be that difficult to come up with a compromise format with 3+1 rider teams. Or run the Pairs event on Day 1, with a proper World Cup on Day 2. 

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20 hours ago, chunky said:

Firstly, the uninitiated don't give a crap! Even many of the initiated don't...

Some sports, while not unique, don't conform to convention, and for good reason. Speedway is just one of those, but the key to it is "team". Just because one rider wins a race doesn't mean that they are the best TEAM. If you went by race-winners, then I could be Tai's partner in such an event, and WE could win, even though we aren't anywhere close to being the best TEAM.

Now, what about cycling? The Team Pursuit is not decided by the FIRST placed rider on the team, but when the THIRD rider finishes.

Biathlon. The TEAM biathlon was decided by where ALL the team members finished.

F1. Lewis Hamilton could win EVERY GP, but it doesn't mean that Mercedes would win the Constructors Championship, as it is decided by ALL team members.

Disagree with this.  First and fourth to me is the same as second and third - in no way are the two riders in second and third the better TEAM (not sure why we're using capitals but I'll go with it).  First and second or first and third then yes, they are the better TEAM.  Really don't like the points system at all as to me the whole point of speedway is to win the race.  I'd really love for the final to be two riders from one country out in first and second, miles ahead only for one of them to have an EF on the last bend and the other nation wins, because they were the best TEAM - bet they'd re-think it again for next year.

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10 hours ago, Ben91 said:

Pairs racing should use the 4-3-2-0 points format as this encourages team riding. Why it isn’t used in the SON is beyond me. The whole two day event coming down to a single final heat is also farcical but the rules are the same for every team entering. Imagine the football World Cup final going to a penalty shoot out every time regardless of the final score of the match though. Stupid right? That’s Speedway. 

I don't think it does though.  Teams will want to get first and second or first and third every race if they can, else they risk not being in the final.

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2 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I don't think it does though.  Teams will want to get first and second or first and third every race if they can, else they risk not being in the final.

Team riding is dead in fairness. But the thought process is that not finishing last is more important than finishing first in pairs racing and that makes perfect sense. 

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3-2-1-0 is perfectly fine in team events. No way should more points be awarded for 2nd-3rd over a guy winning the race.

What should be don't is bonus points for team riding in 1st & 2nd only then these are used if count back is required. 

The aim in Speedway should always be 'win races & look after your team', never 'look after your team & let them win races'. 

What you could do is make it more of a killer for rider's finishing last with 5-3-2-0. Nobody would want to be 8-2'd

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12 hours ago, Ben91 said:

Team riding is dead in fairness. But the thought process is that not finishing last is more important than finishing first in pairs racing and that makes perfect sense. 

I'll agree with you that generally it is, l don't know if you saw the Polish play off final but there were 2 clear examples of how to and how not to team ride. When Gorzow were struggling to build up any kind of lead during their home leg I remember 1 race where Wozniak was struggling to hold 2nd place while Zmarlik was blasting around 30 yards clear at the front and Wozniak really could have done with his help. Then the best bit of team riding I've seen in years was Pawlicki doing all he could to get Pludra home for the win in the final race of the season, was a joy to watch.

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35 minutes ago, iainb said:

I'll agree with you that generally it is, l don't know if you saw the Polish play off final but there were 2 clear examples of how to and how not to team ride. When Gorzow were struggling to build up any kind of lead during their home leg I remember 1 race where Wozniak was struggling to hold 2nd place while Zmarlik was blasting around 30 yards clear at the front and Wozniak really could have done with his help. Then the best bit of team riding I've seen in years was Pawlicki doing all he could to get Pludra home for the win in the final race of the season, was a joy to watch.

Wasn't it just........ I was even shouting at my laptop :)

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3 hours ago, iainb said:

I'll agree with you that generally it is, l don't know if you saw the Polish play off final but there were 2 clear examples of how to and how not to team ride. When Gorzow were struggling to build up any kind of lead during their home leg I remember 1 race where Wozniak was struggling to hold 2nd place while Zmarlik was blasting around 30 yards clear at the front and Wozniak really could have done with his help. Then the best bit of team riding I've seen in years was Pawlicki doing all he could to get Pludra home for the win in the final race of the season, was a joy to watch.

Agree regarding Pawlicki brilliant bit of team riding.Trouble nowadays most riders take “hump” about another riders trying to slow them up when team riding occurs.

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With the rules as they are , am I right in thinking that with Dan Bewley named as the u21 rider, one of GB's senior riders will not be required to take any rides in the meeting if Bewley is used as their substitute in every ride ?

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3 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Agree regarding Pawlicki brilliant bit of team riding.Trouble nowadays most riders take “hump” about another riders trying to slow them up when team riding occurs.

Anything seems to go in Poland though, I think it was Pawlicki that nearly put Zmarzlik through the fence In one race and they were having a big love in down the back straight after the race... In this country they'd be rolling around on the track fighting each other :D

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7 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

With the rules as they are , am I right in thinking that with Dan Bewley named as the u21 rider, one of GB's senior riders will not be required to take any rides in the meeting if Bewley is used as their substitute in every ride ?

Yes he can take all the rides

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It was actually heat 14 but for those that haven't seen it:

 

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