Frank Arthur a real Pioneer.!!!

[norbold 7,108]

 "Greatest ever" lists always tend to favour the more recent riders as people will have direct experience of seeing them. For those further back in time, all we can go by are their records and contemporary reports of their races. It's not surprising that most people tend to favour those they have seen.

I would guess the only person who may have seen Eric Langton here is Gustix, possibly Mick the Muppet.

[iris123 20,979]

Of course, that is why I wondered how the fans of the period rated Langton and Parker against each other and compared to the other riders of the time. How journalists of the period rated them. That would probably be more enlightening than how or someone else who never saw them rated them

[chunky 6,091]

12 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Just the man to ask  Norbold, was it a big shock when Frank Charles beat the great Tom Farndon at Belle  Vue in the Star championships in 1935.??Ps sorry about Tauser did he have a brother???

Interesting you should mention Frank Charles. On another thread recently, you were talking about riders we lost between 1935 and 1957, and norbold mentioned those who died off-track. Frank Charles was another great who could be added to the list, losing his life in a gliding accident in 1939.

[norbold 7,108]

9 hours ago, iris123 said:

Of course, that is why I wondered how the fans of the period rated Langton and Parker against each other and compared to the other riders of the time. How journalists of the period rated them. That would probably be more enlightening than how or someone else who never saw them rated them

There are Stenner rankings from 1946 - 1954 and then the Speedway Star rankings from 1956 onwards.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

7 hours ago, chunky said:

Interesting you should mention Frank Charles. On another thread recently, you were talking about riders we lost between 1935 and 1957, and norbold mentioned those who died off-track. Frank Charles was another great who could be added to the list, losing his life in a gliding accident in 1939.

I didn't know that Chunky about Frank Charles, the point that Iris made is a great one wouldn't it be good to hear how the respected journalists of there day rated the Langton's,Parker's , ( etc of this world.I have a picture of Langton looking rather gloomy with Lionel Vann Praag i have often heard that there run off for the Championship  could been rigged maybe that is a myth I don't know.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[norbold 7,108]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

I didn't know that Chunky about Frank Charles, the point that Iris made is a great one wouldn't it be good to hear how the respected journalists of there day rated the Langton's,Parker's , ( etc of this world.I have a picture of Langton looking rather gloomy with Lionel Vann Praag i have often heard that there run off for the Championship  could been rigged maybe that is a myth I don't know.

John Chaplin always put forward the story that Van Praag and Langton came to an agreement that whoever reached the first bend first would take the title and the other rider wouldn't overtake him. Langton reached the first bend first but later in the race Van Praag overtook him, thereby reneging on the agreement.

I have always been very doubtful about this as John got the story from Eric Langton and I can't help thinking there may have been a bit of sour grapes about this, but I don't know - it may be true, maybe not.

[iris123 20,979]

Roger Frogley was one of the early English riders who really got going and could battle it out with the Australians in those first few years

[norbold 7,108]

1 minute ago, iris123 said:

Roger Frogley was one of the early English riders who really got going and could battle it out with the Australians in those first few years

And Jim Kempster.

[iris123 20,979]

Do we have a definite date he died for Eric? Wiki seems a bit confused with 1999 and 2001 being mentioned 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Langton

Edited December 14, 2019 by iris123

[norbold 7,108]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Do we have a definite date he died for Eric? Wiki seems a bit confused with 1999 and 2001 being mentioned 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Langton

Fairly sure it was 2001. 
Can't be bothered to amend Wiki - It's too complicated these days!!!

[Bavarian 766]

here is some more info about Eric Langton http://www.motorsport-fanatic.co.uk/speedway-langton.htm

[Bavarian 766]

By the way, Frank Arthur is in the Australian Speedway Hall of Fame

http://www.speedway.org.au/a-c/frank-arthur

 

[norbold 7,108]

40 minutes ago, Bavarian said:

here is some more info about Eric Langton http://www.motorsport-fanatic.co.uk/speedway-langton.htm

Good stuff, Bavarian.

i notice it says that Eric Langton "practically" invented the foot forward style. Now I have always been led to believe that it was, in fact, invented by Ginger Lees and that Eric Langton was an early convert. An interesting field of study!

[E I Addio 15,845]

10 hours ago, norbold said:

John Chaplin always put forward the story that Van Praag and Langton came to an agreement that whoever reached the first bend first would take the title and the other rider wouldn't overtake him. Langton reached the first bend first but later in the race Van Praag overtook him, thereby reneging on the agreement.

I have always been very doubtful about this as John got the story from Eric Langton and I can't help thinking there may have been a bit of sour grapes about this, but I don't know - it may be true, maybe not.

A similar sort of story was told by Split Waterman about the 1951 World Final. After 4 rides each, Jack Biggs was unbeaten, with one race to go. Split Waterman was out against Biggs , and another rider in the race - I forget who - came up to Split and said “Has Jack asked you to keep out of his way ? “ Split said he hadn’t so they both went out and beat Biggs who came last, this finishing on 12 points which gave Split and Jack Young the chance of a run off against Biggs. The rest is history. In the run off Biggs made the gate but nerves got to him and he was passed first by Jack Young then Waterman.

Split Waterman didn’t say whether money would need to change hands for the others to “keep out of the way “ but it is unlikely to be a gentleman’s agreement ! 

 

[norbold 7,108]

It was Fred Williams who spoke to Split Waterman. However, I'm sure Jack Biggs felt there was no need to say anything, he had been totally dominant that night and probably felt that he would get at least one point out of the race as that was all he needed to become World Champion.