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Sings4Speedway

MSDL Destroyed by BSPA?

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What does it matter what a team in second half junior racing is called as long as the riders get their opportunities? Also, giving old fans a chance to see a team in their name and in their colours race at such a low level cannot be harmful to the sport. But then, that would please customers........

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3 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

I am only purveying information that i have been told / read. This season two teams have not been allowed to run in the MSDL because they are nomad sides. The others have yet to confirm or deny but few are likely to be making more substantial efforts to locate a new venue than Reading. I do not know if Godfrey was the decision maker or not but as top of the pile it cannot be something that has passed his notice. 

If you want reasons it could be anything from ensuring the league in which his club operates in is secure or profiteering from the amateur meetings he hosts as they re likely to be better supported this summer.......i would point out all of those are speculation due to no genuine real reason being issued.

Whilst that may/may not be the case there are certainly several nomad sides preparing to run this season and have now been denied so he message was neither clear nor made publicly known as the uproar would have started before now.

"Information I have been told/ read"

So your just spreading rumours then?

The SCB are supposed to run the sport as they are the rule enforcers/makers, the BSPA run the clubs, hence Vatcher attending NJL AGM's as he tells them the rules they have to adhere too. Vatcher will also be the controller of the MDL/SDL. Perhaps you need to replace Godfreys name with Vatchers?

 

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29 minutes ago, Ringitsneck said:

"Information I have been told/ read"

So your just spreading rumours then?

The SCB are supposed to run the sport as they are the rule enforcers/makers, the BSPA run the clubs, hence Vatcher attending NJL AGM's as he tells them the rules they have to adhere too. Vatcher will also be the controller of the MDL/SDL. Perhaps you need to replace Godfreys name with Vatchers?

 

Not spreading rumours, two clubs that intended to run in the MSDL this season have been blocked from doing so. The information i was supplied was that it was the BSPA who had done so and Godfrey sits at the top of that tree. Should it be the SCB who blocked the clubs then i have been mis-informed. If it was Vatcher (and it wouldn't surprise me) it would be nice to hear his personal motives / reasoning behind it. If it wasn't Vatcher then i would hope the real villains name themselves and take ownership of their terrible decisions. 

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57 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Not spreading rumours, two clubs that intended to run in the MSDL this season have been blocked from doing so. The information i was supplied was that it was the BSPA who had done so and Godfrey sits at the top of that tree. Should it be the SCB who blocked the clubs then i have been mis-informed. If it was Vatcher (and it wouldn't surprise me) it would be nice to hear his personal motives / reasoning behind it. If it wasn't Vatcher then i would hope the real villains name themselves and take ownership of their terrible decisions. 

I don’t go with rumours. I ask. It wasn’t Neil Vatcher’s decision. 
I don’t know any more

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Hopefully those who made the decision will make themselves known soon enough. Non of the the committee, the board etc but those who have been appointed to be the guardians of British speedway and do what is in its best interests at all levels and who will offer a genuine justifiable reason why teams using nomad names cannot participate in a development league and why they are willing to destroy a development league in the process.

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5 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Hopefully those who made the decision will make themselves known soon enough. Non of the the committee, the board etc but those who have been appointed to be the guardians of British speedway and do what is in its best interests at all levels and who will offer a genuine justifiable reason why teams using nomad names cannot participate in a development league and why they are willing to destroy a development league in the process.

Having done some research, I gather it’s only the teams with nomad names that are involved. The rules on this have been clear for a very long time - only people actively looking for new premises, and with a realistic chance of success could use the name of a defunct team. I’ve never looked into this but would guess that it’s something to do with protecting the intellectual property behind the name so if someone is able to open a track at the named places, they would have the right to use the name. 
The rules were loosened  for SDL/MDL but maybe some people were abusing the privilege?

Anyway, what is there to stop the so called nomad teams coming to an arrangement with whatever track they are using to run under their name? It’s been done plenty of times before. 

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I think Mr.Pairman has hit the nail on the head.

Simply a case of rules being enforced, either by the SCB or the BSPA. Whilst it appears to some to be a witch hunt , it isn't.

If the people involved still want to run a team, they can!

The NJL are all ' amateur ' teams run by volunteers not the club's themselves, the idea is to give youngsters a chance of rides so the name should make no difference.

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The difference is that whilst these volunteers do an amazing job of running development teams they also have their own interests in promoting the defunct teams they support.  It could easily be argued that by keeping the team names on track they are still assisting the chances of a revival at their own tracks. Reading, Crayford,  MK, Exeter and Weymouth are all run by supporters of those sides. Remove those and with no Camarthen it leave just IOW and Birmingham from last year hence no league. Next up IOW will be blocked from running as their riders are not actually wizards!

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10 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

The difference is that whilst these volunteers do an amazing job of running development teams they also have their own interests in promoting the defunct teams they support.  It could easily be argued that by keeping the team names on track they are still assisting the chances of a revival at their own tracks. Reading, Crayford,  MK, Exeter and Weymouth are all run by supporters of those sides. Remove those and with no Camarthen it leave just IOW and Birmingham from last year hence no league. Next up IOW will be blocked from running as their riders are not actually wizards!

Why can’t the made up team of “Crayford” run at Eastbourne or Kent, “Reading” at Swindon, “Exeter” at Somerset, “Weymouth” at Poole, and so on, all operating under the name of the track on which they are based?

Do any of them contribute to rent costs, referee costs, medical costs, track prep costs, or do they expect to get these free of charge? And, even if they do bring “10 or 20” supporters, how many get in free as mechanics and helpers?

I’ve seen the other side of these MDL (in particular) and SDL meetings where there haven’t been enough riders so there are long gaps between races (inconveniencing the referee, paramedics etc), where one rider rides for one team one week and another the next and where the “development” riders are guys in their 40s. 
SCB worked hard three or four years ago to tidy this up, and it seems to me that this process is continuing. 
I am all in favour of giving youngsters as much track time as possible and, to this end, I assume you know that the Premiership tracks are going to run their own 2nd half junior league.

This is not a witch hunt or a conspiracy but part of a process to encourage young British riders in a proper, controlled, professional manner. 
I’m sure the offer of assistance from any of those involved with the former nomadic teams will be appreciated. 

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Look I know my comments here are not going to make me any friends but here we go. The bottom line I think is that the BSPA has finally lost patience with "Ghost Teams" popping up year after year in the junior leagues and now that Cradley have folded, the thorn in the side of that argument has finally been removed. I've sat on the fence over the last few years and watched the MDL/MDSL with interest and In my honest opinion for what it's worth it has started to look a bit silly with all these old names being used. One or two like we had a few years ago is fine but when the league is made up of more defunct teams than actual junior teams of the promotion it starts to look a bit of a joke. Do the speedway star still run a fantasy league for people wanting to use such team names? I know the people running these teams are helping juniors get track time and that has to be applauded. But, I do believe that people running the likes of Reading, Weymouth, Crayford, New Cross, Wembley, etc, etc, have a very different agenda to those running the junior teams at Birmingham, I.O.W or Belle Vue. I could be very wrong of cause. I do sympathise with the people running the ghost teams. I know it takes a lot of hard work and enthusiasm, but if you are genuine about giving young lads track time and helping them develop then just swallow the bullet and call your teams Swindon juniors, Plymouth reserves, etc. After all if you are genuine then you will not care about team names, trophies and so on as long as the lads (and girls) are benefiting from a meaningful team competition. I know the objective of such enthusiast's it to find land and build a new track to revive them, but please, please, please wake up and smell the coffee. Unless you have endless pockets of cash, and are even lucky to get a patch of land when councils are after more land for homes, then you are just living in a romantic fantasy land. Cradley have failed and given up. Take lessons from that. The other thing you have to take into account is the 2 men now running the BSPA have no time what so ever for the junior leagues

I will just finish on this. The language used in recent weeks on social media by the organisers of such teams to describe the powers that be has been very unsavoury when you are "promoting" yourselves as a family sport on the other side of the coin. It makes you look childish and like you are throwing your toys out of the pram. 

Sorry if my comments are a bit harsh but there's no point sugarcoating the truth. 

 

 

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I can understand the need to ensure that these events are organised and run properly but the key point is that it is volunteer organised and there are limitations, as at higher levels of speedway, how much you can control and restrict volunteers. 

The point being missed is that these people are running the nomad teams out of love for their lost tracks. As a by-product they give opportunities for riders, and a bit of extra entertainment for the track's customers.

Expecting them to instead run a junior team on behalf of, and in the name of the staging track needs a different motive. I know what it's like to lose my track, in my case 47 years ago so I know where these guys are coming from. 

Speedway has a dreadful record in quashing the enthusiasm of volunteers. Too often the attitude is "You did that? Well you can do much more - get on with it". 

It surely is possible for the sport to find room for this enthusiasm without applying the big stick?

 

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8 minutes ago, JamesHarris said:

Look I know my comments here are not going to make me any friends but here we go. The bottom line I think is that the BSPA has finally lost patience with "Ghost Teams" popping up year after year in the junior leagues and now that Cradley have folded, the thorn in the side of that argument has finally been removed. I've sat on the fence over the last few years and watched the MDL/MDSL with interest and In my honest opinion for what it's worth it has started to look a bit silly with all these old names being used. One or two like we had a few years ago is fine but when the league is made up of more defunct teams than actual junior teams of the promotion it starts to look a bit of a joke. Do the speedway star still run a fantasy league for people wanting to use such team names? I know the people running these teams are helping juniors get track time and that has to be applauded. But, I do believe that people running the likes of Reading, Weymouth, Crayford, New Cross, Wembley, etc, etc, have a very different agenda to those running the junior teams at Birmingham, I.O.W or Belle Vue. I could be very wrong of cause. I do sympathise with the people running the ghost teams. I know it takes a lot of hard work and enthusiasm, but if you are genuine about giving young lads track time and helping them develop then just swallow the bullet and call your teams Swindon juniors, Plymouth reserves, etc. After all if you are genuine then you will not care about team names, trophies and so on as long as the lads (and girls) are benefiting from a meaningful team competition. I know the objective of such enthusiast's it to find land and build a new track to revive them, but please, please, please wake up and smell the coffee. Unless you have endless pockets of cash, and are even lucky to get a patch of land when councils are after more land for homes, then you are just living in a romantic fantasy land. Cradley have failed and given up. Take lessons from that. The other thing you have to take into account is the 2 men now running the BSPA have no time what so ever for the junior leagues

I will just finish on this. The language used in recent weeks on social media by the organisers of such teams to describe the powers that be has been very unsavoury when you are "promoting" yourselves as a family sport on the other side of the coin. It makes you look childish and like you are throwing your toys out of the pram. 

Sorry if my comments are a bit harsh but there's no point sugarcoating the truth. 

 

 

Personally, I do not know why enthusiasts who wish to preserve the old teams of speedway, don't find a sympathetic farmer, with land near former tracks and carve a track in a field and don't call it speedway, but something similar, which means it has nothing to do with the BSPA. Then run 'speedway' in a similar way to Grass Track. In my opinion, a 'track in a field', is probably the future/only future for speedway. 

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Just to respectfully clarify a few things that people have questioned... Firstly the BSPA Management Committee are in charge of the Development Leagues, not the SCB.

Yes the rules about proving that you are actively looking for a track have always been there and we at Reading are and we feel we have backed that up. We obviously have to omit certain details if asked by landowners but we sent copies of emails that we feel proved what we are doing. We certainly dont feel that we abused any privileges. I havent seen what any other team sent to the BSPA. If someone else appeared and said they had the capacity to run a team in Reading we would happily step aside and we wouldn't ever think we could stop them using the Reading Racers name. But the truth is nobody else is looking. 

As far as calling ourselves Swindon we feel certain this would completely detach the remaining Reading fans and they would quickly lose interest. We came into this to get Speedway back in Reading, it is important to this aim to keep the name alive otherwise racing in the league doesnt help our cause.

Most of the nomadic teams pay their hosts to run at their stadiums and those that dont, know they are fortunate and are very grateful. Reading have never got any fans in the back gate under the guise of a mechanic or anything else, I dont know about any other team. Swindon want us to run there, as Reading so we cant be causing them too many problems.

Yes some teams have used riders in their 40s, I cant deny that.

If riders lining up for different teams each week, long gaps between races and not enough riders to complete a team is making Speedway look bad, maybe the PL, CL & NDL should eliminate these things happening first?  Thats where most people are looking, not at us.

I find it very interesting that the PL are going to run their own junior league this year, just when they decide we cant run.

Mr Pairman you know more about the inner workings of Speedway than I ever will and you are always willing to educate the rest of us so thank you for taking an interest in this thread, but at the end of the day if they wanted to stop us because they dont think we are doing it properly I would rather they said so instead of saying it's to do with the name we use.

 

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56 minutes ago, Gordon Pairman said:

I assume you know that the Premiership tracks are going to run their own 2nd half junior league.

Out of interest where has this been announced? If that is the case then are the prem clubs not crushing the league to start their own?

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15 minutes ago, skydog said:

Just to respectfully clarify a few things that people have questioned... Firstly the BSPA Management Committee are in charge of the Development Leagues, not the SCB.

Yes the rules about proving that you are actively looking for a track have always been there and we at Reading are and we feel we have backed that up. We obviously have to omit certain details if asked by landowners but we sent copies of emails that we feel proved what we are doing. We certainly dont feel that we abused any privileges. I havent seen what any other team sent to the BSPA. If someone else appeared and said they had the capacity to run a team in Reading we would happily step aside and we wouldn't ever think we could stop them using the Reading Racers name. But the truth is nobody else is looking. 

As far as calling ourselves Swindon we feel certain this would completely detach the remaining Reading fans and they would quickly lose interest. We came into this to get Speedway back in Reading, it is important to this aim to keep the name alive otherwise racing in the league doesnt help our cause.

Most of the nomadic teams pay their hosts to run at their stadiums and those that dont, know they are fortunate and are very grateful. Reading have never got any fans in the back gate under the guise of a mechanic or anything else, I dont know about any other team. Swindon want us to run there, as Reading so we cant be causing them too many problems.

Yes some teams have used riders in their 40s, I cant deny that.

If riders lining up for different teams each week, long gaps between races and not enough riders to complete a team is making Speedway look bad, maybe the PL, CL & NDL should eliminate these things happening first?  Thats where most people are looking, not at us.

I find it very interesting that the PL are going to run their own junior league this year, just when they decide we cant run.

Mr Pairman you know more about the inner workings of Speedway than I ever will and you are always willing to educate the rest of us so thank you for taking an interest in this thread, but at the end of the day if they wanted to stop us because they dont think we are doing it properly I would rather they said so instead of saying it's to do with the name we use.

 

My view, for what it’s worth, is the Reading SDL volunteers are the ones who deserve to find a way to resuscitate the Racers. Exeter were on borrowed time (for a long while) and there is still a possibility of them finding somewhere, but the Reading supporters were made promises that weren’t kept. It is also my view that those calling themselves Crayford or New Cross or Milton Keynes know they are using an historic name that is unlikely ever to stage Speedway again. And perhaps they then tarnish the name of teams that might have a chance of resuscitation? I’m 
I do think that, no matter how well intentioned, one team running out of another team’s stadium, and this applies in other sports too, should only ever be a temporary measure. The original supporters will soon fade away. MK Dons, anyone?

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