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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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2 hours ago, Gambo said:

I wonder if local builders can be classed as 'essential workers'?

 My daughter (expecting twins in April) and her partner are having a kitchen extension done which is being done across the whole width of the house.

 The old kitchen is completely empty and the new walls and roof are completed, but no floor, windows or doors fitted as yet. The entrance to the 'old' kitchen is boarded up for security.

 They currently have no cooking facilities or washing machine and are relying on family to provide hot meals and clothes washing. The work was due to be completed by December, but a month's delay could see that date moving to 2021!

Construction workers are exempt so I would go for it. Keep the windows open.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Construction workers are exempt so I would go for it. Keep the windows open.

 

 

Construction workers are exempt.Although during the last lockdown and still now some are having trouble sourcing materials,and when they do get some they have gone up 10%-20%.

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1 hour ago, Shrub said:

Well I'd hate to disappoint you!..

We went into lockdown in March, the idea being to buy time and flatten the curve. Indeed, as Dr David Nabbaro, the WHO's special envoy on Covid 19 said "The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, rebalance your resources: protect your health workers who are exhausted" "We (the WHO) do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus".

Well we had three months of it and on the plus side the curve was flattened (though the peak in cases was before the lockdown started), the air was cleaner, wildlife benefited, there was less noise, a lot of people found that they could and actually liked working from home and by and large people followed the guidelines. On the down side 40,000 still died within 28 days of a positive test, at least as many again if not more will probably die as a direct result of the lockdown restrictions, millions lost their jobs, thousands of businesses went to the wall, hundreds of people didn't get their cancer's detected early due to screening's being suspended, large numbers of routine operations were cancelled meaning for some treatable conditions became permanent ones, mounting mental health issues and national debt exceeded £2 trillion for the first time.

And after all that we now find ourselves more or less back where we started.

This time there is plenty of 'real' evidence and data related to the virus, not just models. And there are now thousands of doctors, scientists epidemiologists, many as eminent in their fields as the governments experts, some more meritorious who say that the approach is wrong and there is another way. Who knows if they are right? The shameful thing is there is no debate to be had, SAGE go completely unchallenged and most of the media (not all) seek to smear them rather than argue and debate what they say. They have set out their arguments clearly and with data to back why they think SAGE are wrong. Why the Imperial College models that SAGE use are hopelessly wrong. These are not conspiracy theorists, lizard people or general loons but people who at least should be properly heard.

So we are going to do it all again. I'm not a medical expert but I'll tell you what will happen. The curve will gradually flatten but with no planned exit strategy as soon as it ends it will creep back up again and we'll be back where we started yet again. In the meantime thousands more jobs will be lost and it will be the final straw for countless more businesses. Hospital waiting lists for non Covid conditions will spiral even further out control. The hospitality and leisure sector will be a case of not so much kicking a man when he's down but picking up the baseball bat and continuously clubbing it over the head until it's very lifeblood is running into the gutter. 

Lockdown failed before and it will fail again. At the very least we should be looking for and talking to those who see another way.

It’s all clearly a pretext to locking down over the Christmas period. Let’s see if it really lasts only 4 weeks... :rolleyes:

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On 11/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, Shrub said:

Well I'd hate to disappoint you!..

We went into lockdown in March, the idea being to buy time and flatten the curve. Indeed, as Dr David Nabbaro, the WHO's special envoy on Covid 19 said "The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, rebalance your resources: protect your health workers who are exhausted" "We (the WHO) do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus".

Well we had three months of it and on the plus side the curve was flattened (though the peak in cases was before the lockdown started), the air was cleaner, wildlife benefited, there was less noise, a lot of people found that they could and actually liked working from home and by and large people followed the guidelines. On the down side 40,000 still died within 28 days of a positive test, at least as many again if not more will probably die as a direct result of the lockdown restrictions, millions lost their jobs, thousands of businesses went to the wall, hundreds of people didn't get their cancer's detected early due to screening's being suspended, large numbers of routine operations were cancelled meaning for some treatable conditions became permanent ones, mounting mental health issues and national debt exceeded £2 trillion for the first time.

And after all that we now find ourselves more or less back where we started.

This time there is plenty of 'real' evidence and data related to the virus, not just models. And there are now thousands of doctors, scientists epidemiologists, many as eminent in their fields as the governments experts, some more meritorious who say that the approach is wrong and there is another way. Who knows if they are right? The shameful thing is there is no debate to be had, SAGE go completely unchallenged and most of the media (not all) seek to smear them rather than argue and debate what they say. They have set out their arguments clearly and with data to back why they think SAGE are wrong. Why the Imperial College models that SAGE use are hopelessly wrong. These are not conspiracy theorists, lizard people or general loons but people who at least should be properly heard.

So we are going to do it all again. I'm not a medical expert but I'll tell you what will happen. The curve will gradually flatten but with no planned exit strategy as soon as it ends it will creep back up again and we'll be back where we started yet again. In the meantime thousands more jobs will be lost and it will be the final straw for countless more businesses. Hospital waiting lists for non Covid conditions will spiral even further out control. The hospitality and leisure sector will be a case of not so much kicking a man when he's down but picking up the baseball bat and continuously clubbing it over the head until it's very lifeblood is running into the gutter. 

Lockdown failed before and it will fail again. At the very least we should be looking for and talking to those who see another way.

And there it is. Shrub the expert that knows better than Whitty and Valance and most of Europe!

You can go on and on about all the doom and gloom that lockdown brings, but at the moment all around the world it's the ONLY way to slow the spread.  FACT.

Edited by chris4gillian
Named the wrong poster, apologies.
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17 hours ago, Grand Central said:

But this is just madness.

I can't really come up with any other analysis .

Just deeply deeply disappointed in Boris this time.

The wrong move at the wrong time.

So what's the right move then?? 

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4 hours ago, Gambo said:

I wonder if local builders can be classed as 'essential workers'?

 My daughter (expecting twins in April) and her partner are having a kitchen extension done which is being done across the whole width of the house.

 The old kitchen is completely empty and the new walls and roof are completed, but no floor, windows or doors fitted as yet. The entrance to the 'old' kitchen is boarded up for security.

 They currently have no cooking facilities or washing machine and are relying on family to provide hot meals and clothes washing. The work was due to be completed by December, but a month's delay could see that date moving to 2021!

Boris stated that the construction sector (which includes building work) is to continue as per normal throughout the November lockdown.

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33 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It’s all clearly a pretext to locking down over the Christmas period. Let’s see if it really lasts only 4 weeks... :rolleyes:

If it does, we will be in lockdown again in January after the December rush to buy presents, 

A lockdown can only work if there is an exit stratagy, they didnt have an exit stratagy to get out of tier 2 or 3 why do people think this will be any different

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8 minutes ago, chris4gillian said:

Don't be so silly iris, lockdowns don't work (apparently).

We only have 1 to go on here, and it has just been proven to have failed

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Fairly obvious there is another way...

 

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Just now, The Third Man said:

If it does, we will be in lockdown again in January after the December rush to buy presents, 

A lockdown can only work if there is an exit stratagy, they didnt have an exit stratagy to get out of tier 2 or 3 why do people think this will be any different

That is what I said yesterday and today. It doesn't make sense to have a lockdown now, and come out of it right in the middle of what is normally the peak(ish) time for the flu season

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