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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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Here’s the BBC:

“Vaccination has been shown to prevent severe infection, so even if people do catch the virus, they would be protected from getting seriously ill.”

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51 minutes ago, Tim G said:

One of my golf mates said his girlfriend’s father has got a vaccine appointment and he is only 78, he is in reasonable health so no reason for him to be pushed up the queue. He lives in Oxfordshire.

I'm assuming (dangerous on here I know:P) that because of the near vicinity of a large hub in Oxford the majority of over 80s have been jabbed. My 93 year old mum in law hasn't had a jab or appointment yet so I guess in rural Norfolk and Suffolk the lack of large vaccination hubs mean the over 80s are still ongoing.

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2 minutes ago, MattK said:

95% of those who receive the vaccine will not get Covid

 

 

I think you’re wrong.

Can you point to a government statement that says that?

As an aside, Pfizer did not claim that their 95% figure was for people “with the disease”, it was for people who became “symptomatic” (asymptomatics were not tested).

Edited by DC2

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8 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Which part of this statement do you disagree with:

“The official view now is that once vaccinated you may still get the virus, you may still suffer some symptoms and you may still pass it on but you should not get the worst symptoms or die, at least in 90% or 95% of cases.“

I don't like that at all.

Firstly, it says virus, when presumable it means disease. The vaccine does not protect against the virus. Alternatively, it is suggesting you may get symptoms of the virus, which is incorrect, as you get symptoms from the disease.

You may still pass it on - yes, that appears to be the current thinking.

"you should not get the worst symptoms or die, at least in 90% or 95% of cases." Again, technically correct, but I feel that is misleading, unless the other vaccine studies are using a different definition.

Overall, I think that is a very poor effort and one of my biggest bugbears throughout this whole thing is the terrible quality of the communications.

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5 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

I think you’re wrong.

Can you point to a government statement that says that?

As an aside, Pfizer did not claim that their 95% figure was for people “with the disease”, it was for people who became “symptomatic” (asymptomatics were not tested).

Do you have a source for that, as the link I provided above suggests otherwise?

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Just now, MattK said:

I don't like that at all.

Firstly, it says virus, when presumable it means disease. The vaccine does not protect against the virus. Alternatively, it is suggesting you may get symptoms of the virus, which is incorrect, as you get symptoms from the disease.

You may still pass it on - yes, that appears to be the current thinking.

"you should not get the worst symptoms or die, at least in 90% or 95% of cases." Again, technically correct, but I feel that is misleading, unless the other vaccine studies are using a different definition.

Overall, I think that is a very poor effort and one of my biggest bugbears throughout this whole thing is the terrible quality of the communications.

Just produce a statement from the government or any of the manufacturers that says

“95% of those vaccinated will not get Covid”.

Go on.

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3 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Just produce a statement from the government or any of the manufacturers that says

“95% of those vaccinated will not get Covid”.

Go on.

"A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 162 cases among those assigned to placebo; BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6)"

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

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6 minutes ago, MattK said:

Do you have a source for that, as the link I provided above suggests otherwise?

“The clinical trials run by Pfizer and other companies were specifically designed to see whether vaccines protect people from getting sick from Covid-19. If volunteers developed symptoms like a fever or cough, they were then tested for the coronavirus.  But there’s abundant evidence that people can get infected with the coronavirus without ever showing symptoms. And so it’s possible that a number of people who got vaccinated in the clinical trials got infected, too, without ever realizing it. If those cases indeed exist, none of them are reflected in the 95 percent efficacy rate.”

Now, without further ado, can you please:

produce a statement from the government or any of the manufacturers that says

 “95% of those vaccinated will not get Covid”.

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1 minute ago, DC2 said:

“The clinical trials run by Pfizer and other companies were specifically designed to see whether vaccines protect people from getting sick from Covid-19. If volunteers developed symptoms like a fever or cough, they were then tested for the coronavirus.  But there’s abundant evidence that people can get infected with the coronavirus without ever showing symptoms. And so it’s possible that a number of people who got vaccinated in the clinical trials got infected, too, without ever realizing it. If those cases indeed exist, none of them are reflected in the 95 percent efficacy rate.”

That isn't a source, that's just a block of text.

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3 minutes ago, MattK said:

"A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 162 cases among those assigned to placebo; BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to 97.6)"

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

That’s a trial result which, with respect, you do not understand.

Just produce a clear statement that “95% of those who receive the vaccine will not get Covid”.

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Just now, DC2 said:

That’s a trial result which, with respect, you do not understand.

Just produce a clear statement that “95% of those who receive the vaccine will not get Covid”.

What part of the study do I not understand?

There is no clear statement, there are the results from the study, which I have linked to above. You can choose to accept those results or not, that is up to you.

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5 minutes ago, DC2 said:

"And so it’s possible that a number of people who got vaccinated in the clinical trials got infected, too, without ever realizing it."

It is possible. However, it would be a bit remiss of the study to rely on people reporting their own symptoms, don't you think? Which is why antibody tests were carried out at regular intervals:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04380701 

Edited by MattK

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2 minutes ago, MattK said:

What part of the study do I not understand?

There is no clear statement, there are the results from the study, which I have linked to above. You can choose to accept those results or not, that is up to you.

Just produce a clear statement that “95% of those who receive the vaccine will not get Covid”.

The 95% trial result represented those who did not develop symptoms but did not account for asymptomatics.

That’s why it’s now stated to be (95%) protection from symptoms, not 95% protection from getting Covid.

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1 minute ago, MattK said:

"And so it’s possible that a number of people who got vaccinated in the clinical trials got infected, too, without ever realizing it."

It is possible. However, it would be a bit remiss of the study to rely on people reporting their own symptoms, don't you think? Which is why antibody tests were carried out at regular intervals:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04380701 

Waffle.

Just produce a clear statement that “95% of those who receive the vaccine will not get Covid”.

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