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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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11 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Really?  I am just entering my fourth week of having this thing. Never felt so ill or so tired or so completely knackered in my life.. But for my good fortune in not having an underlying condition , which in turn meant I never had serious breathing problems, there is probably a pretty high chance I wouldn’t be in the land of the living now.

Carry on with your armchair hypotheses and amateur quack - doctorism, but just dont try to tell me its a fake , hoax, scam the flu or some other figment of my imagination , because my experience over the last month tells me this is real,.This is the truth..

Doncha just love these people who know everything there is to know about anything without moving there fat backside off the armchair.

 

Hope you're feeling a bit better soon. Keep fighting it.

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It’s amazing that the November lockdown didn’t work because of the new variant which was said to be 70% more contagious, but which apparently is more like 30%.

And the current lockdown wasn’t working because we have both the contagious new variant and too many people breaking the rules.

But now that cases have levelled off the excuses have been forgotten and the lockdown is “starting to work”!

Presumably the new variant has gone on holiday and all the rule breakers are in prison?  :rolleyes:

Now, if there were mention of us being “mid-season” that might sound like an explanation!

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13 hours ago, wealdstone said:

Is it not obvious by now ? The whole world is wrong  other than DC2 and fellow travelers. 

I don’t think I’ve promoted any controversial theories, certainly no conspiracy ones.

My posts are usually just observations on studies, research or government statistics and inaccurate, misleading, dubious or biased outpourings from the media and the government.

The aim is to find the truth.

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Clown show...

 

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The discussion in Sweden on the British approach to delaying the 2nd jab

The covid-19 vaccine should be given in two doses, 21-28 days apart, as recommended by the European Medicines Agency (EMA). 

On Tuesday, it emerged that Sweden's regions have saved half of the vaccine doses to ensure access to the second dose, but after the Public Health Agency's clarification, all doses will now be used.

State epidemiologist Anders Tegnell assured that deliveries are rolling on, and that the regions should therefore not worry about giving the second dose on time. At the press conference, it was mentioned that, among other things, Denmark is well ahead of Sweden in the number of vaccinated.

- The difference is quite obvious that many Swedish regions have saved doses, this has not been done in Denmark, said Anders Tegnell.

Denmark deviates from recommendations

Denmark is also one of a number of countries in the EU that plan to deviate from the recommended dose intervals, and now allows a waiting time of up to six weeks between the first and second injection, according to Reuters . Germany is considering the same strategy to increase the rate of vaccination.

- In light of the current shortage of vaccines and the very high number of infected and sick, it is more effective with a strategy where as many as possible are vaccinated as early as possible, says Leif-Erik Sander, vaccine research director at the Charité Hospital in Berlin, to the news agency .

However, both the EMA and the World Health Organization (WHO) advise against deviating from the recommended vaccination schedule, and Pfizer / Biontech warns in a joint statement that there is a lack of data to support a prolonged dose range. 

Their clinical trials, as well as the studies of the vaccine manufacturers Moderna and Astra Zeneca, are based on the syringes being taken every three weeks.

Waiting up to twelve weeks

But the warnings have not stopped Britain from further delaying the second dose. The British authorities have approved a dose interval of a full twelve weeks, as it is considered that the benefits outweigh the risks.

- It ensures that more risk groups can receive valuable protection from vaccines in the coming weeks and months, which reduces deaths and the burden on healthcare, says a spokesperson at the Ministry of Health according to Reuters .

Several researchers question the UK vaccine strategy, as it is uncertain whether the second dose will have a similar effect after twelve weeks, especially among the elderly. In addition, voices are raised that the delay may increase the risk of vaccine-resistant virus mutations.

As Expressen previously reported, a clear effect from Pfizer / Biontech's vaccine can already be seen ten days after the first injection. According to estimates by the British authorities , this is about 50 percent protection. However, the second dose of vaccine is considered necessary to create a safer and longer-lasting protection. 

Professor Agnes Wold, a specialist in clinical immunology, explains that the second jab is a so-called booster dose. Without it, T cell immunity risks getting worse, according to her.

- Getting a good T-cell response, with so-called killer cells, is the most important thing to get good protection. Whether four or five weeks pass between the injection certainly does not matter, but twelve weeks means a great deal of uncertainty. You risk getting a bad result. I think that what the English do is difficult, you take a little too much freedom, says Agnes Wold.

What do you see as risks with the British strategy?

- If you only give people one dose instead of two, you might think that those who are vaccinated become half as immune, and then it becomes quite good. But if the immunity gets worse, for example 20 percent for twice as many, you have shot yourself in the foot. Then you have overall received less protection.

In Denmark, intervals of six weeks have been approved. Can it work well?

- We do not know for sure if it works, because the vaccine has been tested with three weeks between doses. I absolutely do not think that you should set up your vaccination program after six weeks, but if deliveries are delayed for certain groups, it may not be the whole world, says Agnes Wold.

"Not a good solution"

Lennart Svensson, professor of molecular virology at Linköping University and expert in the government's reference group for vaccines against covid-19, agrees that it is problematic to deviate from the vaccine schedule.

- In the UK, a situation arose where they wanted to vaccinate more people more quickly by just giving a dose, but that is not a good solution. There is no clinical evidence that it works. This situation would never arise if there were no shortage of doses, no one would test it with another vaccine.

In the USA, it is also debated whether one should give half a dose on two occasions, in order to be able to offer vaccines to more people, but the US Drug Administration has objected to this at the moment. 

However, Joe Biden plans to increase the rate of vaccination by distributing all available vaccine doses when he takes office, as opposed to how the Trump administration saved a second dose for everyone who is vaccinated, CNN reports . 

- I am not in favor of any of the solutions, but if you have to go to one of the alternatives, I think that two half doses is a much better alternative than just giving one dose. However, it is an emergency solution, and nothing we would recommend in Sweden, says Lennart Svenson.

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46 minutes ago, DC2 said:

I don’t think I’ve promoted any controversial theories, certainly no conspiracy ones.

My posts are usually just observations on studies, research or government statistics and inaccurate, misleading, dubious or biased outpourings from the media and the government.

The aim is to find the truth.

I think that's a fair assessment although personally not always agreeing. What I find annoying are those who are in denial and who don't accept the issues confronting the NHS and the real heartache people face as regards the virus reagrding it as "fake". The thing I constantly question, however, are some of the guidelines that are in place that only add confusion in many cases and are contradictory in the implementation.

Edited by steve roberts
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Haven't commented on this thread for a while, because I don't think there's been anything original on it for around eight months. 

There's still DC2 following the error of the media and talking statistics without showing any human compassion.  People are dying - it's not the football results.  Even BWitcher worked that out eventually and disappeared with his tail between his legs.

But amongst the idiots who think it's all a conspiracy theory (tell that to my uncle, after his sister-in-law died last weekend and he'd take your head off), the bumbling of our government (why, oh why, let the kids go back to school for ONE day), and those who break the rules (which are daft in places, but are generally there for protecting the population, especially the vulnerable), there's the odd story that touches my heart, such as this one:

Covid-19: Bracknell couple's 'final meeting' in hospital - BBC News

Great stuff from this Surrey hospital, to allow a husband a chance to speak to his wife in her dying hours, after both got Covid. That would have meant so much, while he hopefully manages to beat it.

To me, that's what this is all about - human stories.  Every death is a person with relatives and friends and my heart goes out to them. They're not just a statistic. 

Hope everyone is keeping well, both physically and mentally, during this difficult time.

Edited by lucifer sam
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3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Haven't commented on this thread for a while, because I don't think there's been anything original on it for around eight months. 

There's still DC2 following the error of the media and talking statistics without showing any human compassion.  People are dying - it's not the football results.  Even BWitcher worked that out eventually and disappeared with his tail between his legs.

But amongst the idiots who think it's all a conspiracy theory (tell that to my uncle, after his sister-in-law died last weekend and he'd take your head off), the bumbling of our government (why, oh why, let the kids go back to school for ONE day), and those who break the rules (which are daft in places, but are generally there for protecting the population, especially the vulnerable), there's the odd story that touches my heart, such as this one:

Covid-19: Bracknell couple's 'final meeting' in hospital - BBC News

Great stuff from this Surrey hospital, to allow a husband a chance to speak to his wife in her dying hours, after both got Covid. That would meant so much, while he hopefully manages to beat it.

To me, that's what this is all about - human stories.  Every death is a person with relatives and friends and my heart goes out to them. They're not just a statistic. 

Hope everyone is keeping well, both physically and mentally, during this difficult time.

 

I feel sadness and compassion for every single person that has died and their families and friends and I have said that many times before.

You wouldn’t expect every news reporter, MP or government minister to say that or to commemorate every individual death every time they say anything.

Statistics, studies and research are the best way of tracking the disease and deciding upon measures to combat it, precisely so we can have fewer deaths.

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3 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

I feel sadness and compassion for every single person that has died and their families and friends and I have said that many times before.

You wouldn’t expect every news reporter, MP or government minister to say that or to commemorate every individual death every time they say anything.

Statistics, studies and research are the best way of tracking the disease and deciding upon measures to combat it, precisely so we can have fewer deaths.

I've got news for you, you're not a news reporter, MP , or government minister.  :o

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12 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Haven't commented on this thread for a while, because I don't think there's been anything original on it for around eight months. 

There's still DC2 following the error of the media and talking statistics without showing any human compassion.  People are dying - it's not the football results.  Even BWitcher worked that out eventually and disappeared with his tail between his legs.

 

You talk about compassion but your comment about BWitcher shows quite a nasty side to you.

He lived with his elderly parents; you show no concern at all for the fact that he may have disappeared from the forum because something untoward may have happened to them or him.  :angry:

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1 minute ago, jrs said:

I've got news for you, you're not a news reporter, MP , or government minister.  :o

And your point is?   :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, jrs said:

I've got news for you, you're not a news reporter, MP , or government minister.  :o

Mr bleeding obvious has entered the room...:D

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22 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I think that's a fair assessment although personally not always agreeing. What I find annoying are those who are in denial and who don't accept the issues confronting the NHS and the real heartache people face as regards the virus reagrding it as "fake". The thing I constantly question, however, are some of the guidelines that are in place that only add confusion in many cases and are contradictory in the implementation.

Careful, Steve, you’re becoming quite the subversive contradicting Priti Patel.

Did you notice that the police chiefs backed her up but the regional ones acknowledged grounds for confusion!

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Just now, Blupanther said:

Mr bleeding obvious has entered the room...:D

To be fair, noticing the bleedin obvious is quite an achievement for the razor blunt mind of jrs.  :D

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2 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

I feel sadness and compassion for every single person that has died and their families and friends and I have said that many times before.

You wouldn’t expect every news reporter, MP or government minister to say that or to commemorate every individual death every time they say anything.

Statistics, studies and research are the best way of tracking the disease and deciding upon measures to combat it, precisely so we can have fewer deaths.

The media could report on just a few of those human stories each day, rather than flashing up the number of deaths across the bottom of the screen like the bloody football results.  I avoid the news for the latter reason - it's distasteful and inhuman.  

Studies should and are taking place  - a friend of mine is a civil servant who looks at statistics and he wouldn't have been doing anything but looking at this for the last year. But what good is it doing for you to constantly yak on about it here (unless you seriously think statisticians, scientists, civil servants and government minsters are looking on here!), except for maybe upsetting the mental heath of some your fellow BSF members? 

See you again in a few months - I'll leave you to it.

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