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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Star Lady said:

Anything over 100 years old is considered an antique AFAIK.

Doubt anything can be considered both modern and antique.

I just felt like adding my twopennarth:D

Oh, I don't know! :)

Home | Modern Antiques

Edited by Grachan

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Star Lady said:

Anything over 100 years old is considered an antique AFAIK.

Doubt anything can be considered both modern and antique.

I just felt like adding my twopennarth:D

:D

The trouble is using the term modern compared to what ? 

Compared to 1818, for sure 1918 was far more advanced, but compared to today, you strugge to really say it was modern

Had a sort of similar discussion, well Blu doesn't really discuss much, about forest fires in the US

You look back 100 years ago and you just can't compare the Fire Brigade back then, to today

And it is the same with medicine and hospitals in 1918 even in advanced countries. But we are talking world wide here.....

This was written in 2017 !!!

In 1918, medicine had barely become modern; some scientists still believed “miasma” accounted for influenza’s spread. With medicine’s advances since then, laypeople have become rather complacent about influenza. Today we worry about Ebola or Zika or MERS or other exotic pathogens, not a disease often confused with the common cold. This is a mistake.

We are arguably as vulnerable—or more vulnerable—to another pandemic as we were in 1918. 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journal-plague-year-180965222/

Edited by iris123
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6 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Whilst a certain degree of overreaction may have been forgivable in the early days of the pandemic, governments and their advisors have now had plenty of time to understand the nature of COVID and implement proportional measures. The problem though, is that UK and most other countries seem to be now in the grip of a number of factors:

1) Government advisors - some of whom have undoubtedly been aggrandised by the pandemic - are reluctant to predict anything but the worst case scenarios in case they get it wrong and get thrown under the bus by the politicians. 

2) The media for whom the pandemic is a fertile and easy source of news sources, who seem to be intent on both reporting and preaching doom because it makes headlines, which clearly influences government policy.

3) Business interests with close connections (i.e. donors) to ruling parties who are doing very nicely indeed out of the pandemic, especially those government contracts that never went through usual public procurement processes that check whether they are value for money. 

4) The NHS now having the ability to hold the country to ransom on the grounds of a lack of resources, even though this has happened every winter for as long as anyone can remember. Yes, the government is partly responsible for not properly resourcing healthcare now and previously, but now there's even more of an excuse for the horrendous absentee rates that have always bedevilled the NHS. 

5) A sizeable proportion of the public who have swallowed the scare stories, propaganda, and skewed reporting and who actually believe the government measures are protecting them from death. 

6) Regional politicians indulging in oneupmanship to demonstrate they're more 'effective' than national governments to which they're politically opposed. See 5) above.

7) Most governments have had an increasing tendency towards control freakery over the past 2 or 3 decades, which has only partly been limited by libertarian opponents. You only have to create some sort of scare - whether terrorist, illegal immigrant, paedophile or <insert any other moral panic> and the majority of the public can be convinced to support draconian measures every time. COVID is the perfect emergency to implement all of the control freakery that governments have wanted to implement for years, without much public debate or scrutiny.

Post-war rationing was exactly the same thing. There was absolutely no reason why it had to last 10 years after WW2, but far too many interests came to be vested in it and it only ended when the public finally realised it was a complete nonsense and it became an election issue. Even then, there were economic consequences for a couple of decades afterwards thanks to measures that had been put in place and effectively wiped out certain businesses. A lot of parallels with COVID... 

Absolutely :t:

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7 minutes ago, iris123 said:

And it is the same with medicine and hospitals in 1918 even in advanced countries. But we are talking world wide here.....

Modern medical science arguably started in the mid-19th Century, which is when transmission of diseases and infections, the role of disinfectants, and vaccinations began to be understood. However, in 1918 it was still way behind what it is today, and it was still common to die from things that can easily be treated today (such as broken femur or appendicitis).

You'd probably say the modern era of medicine really began when antibiotics and vaccinations for common diseases became widely available, which would have been the late-1940s or early-50s. The discovery of DNA in the 50s was also a massive leap forward in the understanding of biology, which later enabled the revolution (for better or worse) in bioengineering. 

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1 minute ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Modern medical science arguably started in the mid-19th Century, which is when transmission of diseases and infections, the role of disinfectants, and vaccinations began to be understood. However, in 1918 it was still way behind what it is today, and it was still common to die from things that can easily be treated today (such as broken femur or appendicitis).

You'd probably say the modern era of medicine really began when antibiotics and vaccinations for common diseases became widely available, which would have been the late-1940s or early-50s. The discovery of DNA in the 50s was also a massive leap forward in the understanding of biology, which later enabled the revolution (for better or worse) in bioengineering. 

Yes. The world was at war, and things were stretched anyway. As the site states, top doctors were looking after troops rather than the popualtion at large. And that was in places like the US, UK, Germany and France. The conditions in other areas of the world would have been very basic to non existent

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, chris4gillian said:

Whitty (and Sage) advise, the government decide.

Carry on blaming the advisors if it makes you feel superior. 

Whitty has always forecasted the worst possible scenario, which has been admitted, he has never looked at both sides of the discussion, or if he has he has been too scared to put a different from the governments

there have been dissenting voices, but these people are never seen again,

Despite being shown to be wrong on numerous occasions Neil Ferguson is still being quoted as an expert

i don't put Whitty in the same category as Ferguson, but he is not far behind, he definitely doesn't want to lose the limelight he has by going against Boris

 

Edited by The Third Man
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1 hour ago, chris4gillian said:

I didn't mention modern history, that's yours and DC2's interpretation.

Any house, hospital, school, car, ship etc. etc built 100 years ago is NOT modern (unless it has been modernised in recent years).  Fact.

Well, you could argue that none of those built in the 1970s is modern either.  :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, iris123 said:

:D

The trouble is using the term modern compared to what ? 

Compared to 1818, for sure 1918 was far more advanced, but compared to today, you strugge to really say it was modern

 

And of course Covid “excess deaths” are measured against the last five years.

So are we to take it that this is the worst pandemic of the last five years?

I’ll concede that.  :rolleyes:

Otherwise it’s pretty limp and over-hyped.

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It's a testing pandemic. 

Image

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3 hours ago, The Cheese said:

Saw a chap a couple of weeks ago wearing a disposable one with mould clearly growing on it. Insane. 

Did you not check for a pulse? 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Crumpet91 said:

It's a testing pandemic. 

Image

That is tests.....if you compare Polands deaths to the UK it looks very different

Try it here

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/poland

Edited by iris123

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2 hours ago, iris123 said:

In 1918, medicine had barely become modern; some scientists still believed “miasma” accounted for influenza’s spread. 

Miasma?  

Is that droplet or aerosol transmission?  

Symptomatic or asymptomatic transmission? 

Masks or no masks?

How far had Sage come by 2020?

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