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6 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Indeed... the reality is, the vast majority of deaths appear to be from those who were 'self isolating'.

What’s the basis for saying that ? Surely the majority of those self isolating were doing so because they were extremely vulnerable or because they were exhibiting preliminary symptoms.

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2 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

A figure of speech to illustrate stupid behaviour one example of which is the number attending the Cheltenham Gold Cup a few weeks ago in confined spaces, and reports of some of things going on in London which seems to now be translating into higher statistics with London being ahead of the rest of the country.  
As I seem to keep repeating incessantly many of these measures are only necessary because a relatively small percentage don’t exhibit basic common sense in dealing with a dangerous disease.
 

These pale into comparison to the numbers still going to work, cramming onto the tube and going to supermarkets.

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Just now, E I Addio said:

What’s the basis for saying that ? Surely the majority of those self isolating were doing so because they were extremely vulnerable or because they were exhibiting preliminary symptoms.

There are just as many if not more who will have had preliminary symptoms and not self isolated. Millions and millions will have had some of the symptoms listed for Covid-19 as a number of them are the same as the common cold, or a strain of flu. The majority have not locked themselves away.

Yet the overwhelming majority of deaths you see reported, the pattern seems to be the same.. had been self isolating.. condition deteriorated. Viruses thrive indoors. That's proven.

Self isolating I don't mind per se, but get some fresh air and in particular sunlight at the very least!

My Mother received a letter from the NHS yesterday telling her she is not to go outside her house.. but she can have a window open. Absolute nonsense. So suggesting can't sit in the garden? Do you think the virus is going to fly over the fence? But it won't fly through an open window?

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1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

These pale into comparison to the numbers still going to work, cramming onto the tube and going to supermarkets.

The figures for deaths relate to people who contracted the disease up yo a month ago in conditions that existed then.In London at least the trains are reported to be far less crowded today. I have already mentioned precautions taken in supermarkets..

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Well, that’s quite simple.

It’s been admitted that some figures have included deaths where Covid has been suspected rather than confirmed by testing.

And it’s clear that where Covid is included as one of two or three “causes” on a death certificate it may not have caused the death.

From the BBC:

”Is coronavirus causing the deaths?

The death figures being reported daily are hospital cases where a person dies with the coronavirus infection in their body - because it is a notifiable disease cases have to be reported.

But what the figures do not tell us is to what extent the virus is causing the death.

It could be the major cause, a contributory factor or simply present when they are dying of something else.”

I spoke to a friends wife yesterday who is a Death Registrar at a hospital. I asked her the question, if a person was knocked down by a lorry and killed and the autopsy showed they were carrying the virus would he be included as a Covid death. The answer was yes.

Edited by HertsRacer
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1 minute ago, E I Addio said:

The figures for deaths relate to people who contracted the disease up yo a month ago in conditions that existed then.In London at least the trains are reported to be far less crowded today. I have already mentioned precautions taken in supermarkets..

 

 

 

 

 

We're up to a month now!

Blimey, this virus keeps taking longer and longer. 14 days.. 21 days.. now a month. 

However long is necessary to get the numbers to fit I guess!

In Japan it's taking 4 months to start killing. But boy.. just wait till it does.

Same in Sweden no doubt.

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1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

There are just as many if not more who will have had preliminary symptoms and not self isolated. Millions and millions will have had some of the symptoms listed for Covid-19 as a number of them are the same as the common cold, or a strain of flu. The majority have not locked themselves away.

Yet the overwhelming majority of deaths you see reported, the pattern seems to be the same.. had been self isolating.. condition deteriorated. Viruses thrive indoors. That's proven.

Self isolating I don't mind per se, but get some fresh air and in particular sunlight at the very least!

My Mother received a letter from the NHS yesterday telling her she is not to go outside her house.. but she can have a window open. Absolute nonsense. So suggesting can't sit in the garden? Do you think the virus is going to fly over the fence? But it won't fly through an open window?

No that’s not what I am suggesting . For example after last weeks Friday night applause for the NHS I went out for some exercise and there was a chap at the end of the village singing to all the neighbours with a karaoke machine for about 10 minutes and he is doing this every Friday till the emergency is over. There were probably 30-40 listening all standing a good distance apart and it was all very peasant and friendly . Nothing wrong with that . But not everybody acts with that degree of common sense.

 

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1 minute ago, E I Addio said:

No that’s not what I am suggesting . For example after last weeks Friday night applause for the NHS I went out for some exercise and there was a chap at the end of the village singing to all the neighbours with a karaoke machine for about 10 minutes and he is doing this every Friday till the emergency is over. There were probably 30-40 listening all standing a good distance apart and it was all very peasant and friendly . Nothing wrong with that . But not everybody acts with that degree of common sense.

 

Totally agree with that.

 

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29 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

No that’s not what I am suggesting . For example after last weeks Friday night applause for the NHS I went out for some exercise and there was a chap at the end of the village singing to all the neighbours with a karaoke machine for about 10 minutes and he is doing this every Friday till the emergency is over. There were probably 30-40 listening all standing a good distance apart and it was all very peasant and friendly . Nothing wrong with that . But not everybody acts with that degree of common sense.

 

The trouble is, while I agree, if everyone was safe distancing, where's the harm? But the police may take a different view and the authorities don't want us to create our own 'workarounds' or us 'pushing the envelope'. They have presented their message in a black and white way and they want us to adopt it in a black and white way, not bending the rules. Don't get me wrong, I'm as frustrated as everyone else with these draconian measures. 

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1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

The figures for deaths relate to people who contracted the disease up to a month ago in conditions that existed then.

 

That’s the accepted wisdom, isn’t it.

But the daily new cases and daily new deaths graphs for Spain have the same shape for the same days, not the deaths one lagging behind by several weeks.

Have a look.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

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2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Totally agree with that.

 

Well that’s a result.. I was going to mention Japan but discretion doing the better part of valour I’ll leave it at that point of agreement and save Japan for another time !

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2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

But not everybody acts with that degree of common sense.

People are commenting on the measures being taken by shops and businesses. Our stores are limiting numbers, marking floors and designating areas etc, but unless they are RIGIDLY enforced, they will have little or no effect. Of course, stores can't constantly police everyone, and therein lies the problem; too many people are morons who can't/won't police themselves.

The vast majority of people I am seeing ARE doing a good job of self-policing, but it only takes one or two idiots ignoring advice to cause problems. The single thing that worries me is that so many people don't care about personal hygiene. I clean at a local bar, and I am horrified by the amount of people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet. If they won't do it (as a matter of course) after dropping the kids off at the pool, I can't see them following advice now.

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1 hour ago, chunky said:

People are commenting on the measures being taken by shops and businesses. Our stores are limiting numbers, marking floors and designating areas etc, but unless they are RIGIDLY enforced, they will have little or no effect. Of course, stores can't constantly police everyone, and therein lies the problem; too many people are morons who can't/won't police themselves.

The vast majority of people I am seeing ARE doing a good job of self-policing, but it only takes one or two idiots ignoring advice to cause problems. The single thing that worries me is that so many people don't care about personal hygiene. I clean at a local bar, and I am horrified by the amount of people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet. If they won't do it (as a matter of course) after dropping the kids off at the pool, I can't see them following advice now.

Before 'Lockdown' was implemented (but we were being advised the importance of washing hands) I was using the public urinal on Yotk station when out of the corner of my eye I noticed someone exit one of the cubicles and straight out avoiding the hand basins.

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1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Before 'Lockdown' was implemented (but we were being advised the importance of washing hands) I was using the public urinal on Yotk station when out of the corner of my eye I noticed someone exit one of the cubicles and straight out avoiding the hand basins.

I see it all the time... My wife worked in an office, and she said it wasn't unusual to see crap (literally) on the main door handle going out of the women's toilets. Yes, people are that disgusting...

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2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Well that’s a result.. I was going to mention Japan but discretion doing the better part of valour I’ll leave it at that point of agreement and save Japan for another time !

Feel free, the more information shared the better!

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