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old bob at herne bay

Will British Speedway Survive ?

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On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 7:27 AM, waytogo28 said:

And Boris's bold statement of " We will send it packing in 12 weeks" will be yet another foolish utterance and words he will later choke on. The way he has led the handling of the Covid19 crisis, marks the end of his Premiership.

Most seem to think that he's doing a good job and so do I tbh in uncharted waters. Trying not to be too draconian and relying on individuals to be sensible, but we're in the "I'll do what I want until forcibly stopped" era, and much like Panthers alleged Blue Badge policy, everyone pays due to those who will not (some, but not all by any means, cannot with good reason in unprecedented tough and worrying times) play ball.

According to the BBC: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he believes the UK can "turn the tide" against the outbreak within the next 12 weeks and the country can "send coronavirus packing".

That's he believes that we can turn the tide in 12 weeks - all that really requires is to slow down the infection and make some progress on dealing with it. He's not saying anything more than that IMO and it assumes that people will do as they are told which seems unlikely.

I'd lockdown totally London for starters as that's the worst place but I think that he said that he'll not do that which is a bit more of an own goal.

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Think Boris measure were brought in earlier than planned partly as reaction to the idiots behaving like lemmings / locusts who rushed to the seaside and gleefully queued up for fish & chips & ice cream.  Still, good to see Hull City Council workers are out and about today cutting the grass, 'essential services' obviously must continune in these difficult times B).  Stay clean & safe everyone...

Edited by martinmauger
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9 minutes ago, martinmauger said:

Think Boris measure were brought in earlier than planned partly as reaction to the idiots behaving like lemmings / locusts who rushed to the seaside and gleefully queued up for fish & chips & ice cream.  Still, good to see Hull City Council workers are out and about today cutting the grass, 'essential services' obviously must continune in these difficult times B).  Stay clean & safe everyone...

I took the dog out for 30mins for my outside exercise allocation and was looking at the grass round here thinking that it'll be like a forest before they get to it again, so hopefully PCC send the mowers round.

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11 hours ago, MattK said:

There are two things here. Firstly, riders clearly are self-employed at the moment. Therefore they will not be eligible for the existing Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme announced by the Govt last week. Help for the self-employed is on the cards, but yet to be presented.

However, going forwards (it was supposed to come into effect on 5 April, but has been deferred for a year) the end client, in this case the clubs, will have to determine the employment status of riders and clubs are liable for unpaid taxes if the employment status is incorrectly determined. HMRC have a tool to determine this here.

If you look at the tool, riders very clearly should be employees. They cannot substitute, they have to work as and when their end client specifies, they have to work from the location of their client, they even have to wear the clients uniform. There was a recent court case brought by HMRC against Eamonn Holmes, which he lost, as he claimed he was not an employee when he clearly should have been.

Incorrect. You have shown a number of indicators but the riders make a massive investment in to their bikes etc. It is therefore possible for a rider to make a loss on the season. Riders are free to choose who to ride for e.g how many riders have chosen Polish speedway over British speedway. I’m not saying it’s morally correct but they can prioritise their work to maximise their income. 
 

The tool, CEST, should be completed in cases of status, as you say, to determine whether the individual should be classed within self-employment or an employee but it is only an indicator. 
 

The issue you refer to that has been delayed until April 2021 is IR35 and relates to Personal Service Companies, not self-employment. 

 

Edited by theblueboy
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5 hours ago, theblueboy said:

The issue you refer to that has been delayed until April 2021 is IR35 and relates to Personal Service Companies, not self-employment. 

 

How many riders are genuinely self-employed (as in the HMRC definition) rather than an employee of their own limited company?

I've always assumed they operate under a limited company structure.

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It is a grey area. The point about the HMRC tests are that no one factor determines the outcome. Speedway riders would be one of those examples where there are half a dozen factors on each side of the argument and only a foolhardy idiot would predict with any certainty the outcome should it go to litigation.

 

(I used to be self employed, despite 90% of my income coming from my previous employer for doing much the same things as I had previously. I remember that when the Revenue questioned my status one of the arguments I put forward in favour of self-employment was that I did NOT get an invite to the office Xmas party. And what was this job? I was training tax consultants!)

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The "Asset System " is only observed because it suits both parties , in my limited and very much in the past experience of riders dealing with promoters it was very much everyman for himself and I always say s/way is a team sport   ridden by individuals .Most riders are or were at least on pay as you ride I think it is known as the "GIG Economy " today that is why they were and I would imagine are still considered subcontractors to all intents and purpose .

Edited by FAST GATER

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7 hours ago, MattK said:

How many riders are genuinely self-employed (as in the HMRC definition) rather than an employee of their own limited company?

I've always assumed they operate under a limited company structure.

 https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

They all are. I wouldn’t think there is one rider who is not self-employed.

 

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4 hours ago, arnieg said:

(I used to be self employed, despite 90% of my income coming from my previous employer for doing much the same things as I had previously. I remember that when the Revenue questioned my status one of the arguments I put forward in favour of self-employment was that I did NOT get an invite to the office Xmas party. And what was this job? I was training tax consultants!)

Presumably you and a guest had your own Christmas party up to the value of £150 each?

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2 hours ago, MattK said:

Presumably you and a guest had your own Christmas party up to the value of £150 each?

But surely the ESC applies only to schedule E BIKs, so as a DI/II man I was outside its scope.

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With the latest announcement, then 1 home and one away looks likely if indeed we get back this year

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i think the biggest problem the sport might face going forward is the need to work together .. i'm sure with some of the promoters working together is not necessarily in their nature

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On 3/24/2020 at 1:37 PM, barrybishop said:

As to the question of if we can all survive this... I am always very positive about the future and what lays ahead but it will take an effort from everyone involved in speedway from our fans to our governing bodies to ensure that we succeed. Promoters and riders cannot do it alone... never could, but even more so after this.

Keep safe, check in with your elderly relatives and if you need a chat reach out to me anytime. No need to be lonely.

Step forward Barry Bishop - kneel and Arise Sir Barry. And onwards to the deserved speedway sainthood status. Please foward some DNA and I will attempt to clone 50 Promoters, who can work together to ensure the speedway racing does survive.

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