racers and royals 8,717 Posted April 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, MattK said: These are the riders who raced in at least 10 meetings in Poland last year and who've ridden recently/signed in Britain Ekstraliga Jason Doyle Nicki Pedersen Kenneth Bjerre Fredrik Lindgren Max Fricke Niels Kristian Iversen Chris Holder Brady Kurtz Liga 1 Troy Batchelor Tobiasz Musielak Jacob Thorssell Nicolai Klindt Rohan Tungate Sam Masters Liga 2 David Bellego Kevin Woelbert Tero Aarnio Josh Grajczonek Jaimon Lidsey Dimitri Berge Rene Bach Has Jack Holder retired ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted April 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said: Thanks for the list will help me as I put together a detailed plan of what I'd do with british speedway and I look forward to people pulling it apart haha You can see the riders here: https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/pge-ekstraliga/statystyki/2019 The first drop down let's you select the league. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,549 Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said: Yes your idea Falcon is a very good one something needs to change in my opinion, and if your suggestion happened i would go with It because i love speedway.Will things change i think not it never has in my lifetime and the chance they had years ago to let the late great John Berry revamp the sport was lost.The real shame of it all is we do have talented people out there who could try and implement change ( i.e.) Bishop,L.Kilby, Painter, Vatcher. "Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read. There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion. There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon1983 557 Posted April 2, 2020 When I used to run a regional MMA promotion we knew we could not get the big names domestically as they were all signed to domestic shows who had the TV deals for which there were really only two of those. So we focused on amateur talent plus those upcoming professionals who could use us as a stepping stone for the big show. So in terms of selling shows the fighters actually sold the tickets for commission to friends, family and fans however we still had to promote the event to the locals or casual fans who didnt have a personal connection So we basically used the local talent and promoted them to sell the show and to make them "stars of the show" who people would recognise over time We had the local fighter who become known as the guy fighting in the blue and white star shorts Another guy was a polish fighter who was part of the olympic wrestling squad in the past who walked out to a polish rap performer doing his ring walk A local young lad who had the look and the body that women die for The local ticket seller whom sold 220 tickets to the shows that had a 1000 capacity as he was so well known if you didnt buy a ticket to watch him you'd at least recognise his face on a poster We developed mini stars in our catchment area that people came to see... many loved the polish guy and people would say theyve come to watch Rafal... plus having a big local polish community... it drew people in to watch their countryman One of my amateur champions has just signed to the UFC and the guy in the star shorts has just lost a title fight in the biggest promotion in europe. The same belt that was once held by Conor McGregor Most have gone on to perform on the biggest platforms across Europe. So with domestic speedway stars and personalities can be created through the right promotion and the special thing about speedway is the opportunity for rider and fan interaction 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted April 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, falcace said: "Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read. There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion. There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair. I have no real answers Falcace have you? i still enjoy speedway and i am grateful at the moment ( hopefully this season?????) that i still have a track to visit.?? Darts is the sport that makes me so envious Hearn who i am no fan of has totally revamped that pub sport he has made a glorified p... up into a very enjoyable evening.I think he has managed that because he is a dictator and very focused on what he wants he has got this sport to attract young fans.The biggest two problems we have is that most of the Stadia now is old and tired and run down.And the other reason is the week meeting is not concluded early anough for young kids to stay out before there bedtime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FAST GATER 852 Posted April 2, 2020 Wonder how the GP's would manage if they were asked to run on Monday or Thursday instead of monopolising weekends at the peak of the season , UK could run on Friday / Saturday and Poland still on Sundays . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,242 Posted April 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said: When I used to run a regional MMA promotion we knew we could not get the big names domestically as they were all signed to domestic shows who had the TV deals for which there were really only two of those. So we focused on amateur talent plus those upcoming professionals who could use us as a stepping stone for the big show. So in terms of selling shows the fighters actually sold the tickets for commission to friends, family and fans however we still had to promote the event to the locals or casual fans who didnt have a personal connection So we basically used the local talent and promoted them to sell the show and to make them "stars of the show" who people would recognise over time We had the local fighter who become known as the guy fighting in the blue and white star shorts Another guy was a polish fighter who was part of the olympic wrestling squad in the past who walked out to a polish rap performer doing his ring walk A local young lad who had the look and the body that women die for The local ticket seller whom sold 220 tickets to the shows that had a 1000 capacity as he was so well known if you didnt buy a ticket to watch him you'd at least recognise his face on a poster We developed mini stars in our catchment area that people came to see... many loved the polish guy and people would say theyve come to watch Rafal... plus having a big local polish community... it drew people in to watch their countryman One of my amateur champions has just signed to the UFC and the guy in the star shorts has just lost a title fight in the biggest promotion in europe. The same belt that was once held by Conor McGregor Most have gone on to perform on the biggest platforms across Europe. So with domestic speedway stars and personalities can be created through the right promotion and the special thing about speedway is the opportunity for rider and fan interaction Even lots of "top class" boxing matches will have an under card of several "local lads".. The main reason being the promoters know that they will sell tickets.. Many of them will shift 250 and more and at that rate, having just four local lads on the bill will get you 1000 or more punters in. (Which even at a discount rate of 30 quid or so is still a pretty penny).. Speedway in the UK, instead of focusing on having local lads and building their profile, seems to spend hours rearranging fixture lists to ensure a boat load of average journeyman Frenchman, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Slovaks, Italians, etc etc etc all get to race when they tell us they are available.. Names that will mean very little in their own towns and countries never mind locally in towns and cities in England or Scotland.. A very strange plan.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted April 2, 2020 57 minutes ago, falcace said: "Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read. There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion. There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair. I knew John Berry well, when he was running Wimbledon. He could be a funny guy with a great sense of humour, he also had a very serious side when it came to speedway. I got on well with him, he was a pleasure to work with. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon1983 557 Posted April 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, mikebv said: Even lots of "top class" boxing matches will have an under card of several "local lads".. The main reason being the promoters know that they will sell tickets.. Many of them will shift 250 and more and at that rate, having just four local lads on the bill will get you 1000 or more punters in. (Which even at a discount rate of 30 quid or so is still a pretty penny).. Speedway in the UK, instead of focusing on having local lads and building their profile, seems to spend hours rearranging fixture lists to ensure a boat load of average journeyman Frenchman, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Slovaks, Italians, etc etc etc all get to race when they tell us they are available.. Names that will mean very little in their own towns and countries never mind locally in towns and cities in England or Scotland.. A very strange plan.. This is why if the main event in british speedway was an individual championship for British riders all the promotion can go into this and developing stars no matter whether they end up in poland or not then interest could then drop to local teams etc as well 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,549 Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: I have no real answers Falcace have you? i still enjoy speedway and i am grateful at the moment ( hopefully this season?????) that i still have a track to visit.?? Darts is the sport that makes me so envious Hearn who i am no fan of has totally revamped that pub sport he has made a glorified p... up into a very enjoyable evening.I think he has managed that because he is a dictator and very focused on what he wants he has got this sport to attract young fans.The biggest two problems we have is that most of the Stadia now is old and tired and run down.And the other reason is the week meeting is not concluded early anough for young kids to stay out before there bedtime. I have my answer (suggestions). See previous postings. And that is to run weekend multi-sport track racing festivals including speedway in a wider offering to appeal to more families and wider casual and motorsports fans. The darts is a case in point. They targeted a young-ish lads night out crowd, got the music, the branding, the venues, the girls and lots of booze right and it's a big success. 3 hours ago, FAST GATER said: Wonder how the GP's would manage if they were asked to run on Monday or Thursday instead of monopolising weekends at the peak of the season , UK could run on Friday / Saturday and Poland still on Sundays . Ask the GPs? I think the GPs are holding the cards now with healthy crowds, sponsors and international TV coverage. Instead the weekend model should embrace and build around it. Put your event on and conclude it just prior to the GP and put it on the big screens in the bar afterwards....and hang onto your punters. 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Even lots of "top class" boxing matches will have an under card of several "local lads".. The main reason being the promoters know that they will sell tickets.. Many of them will shift 250 and more and at that rate, having just four local lads on the bill will get you 1000 or more punters in. (Which even at a discount rate of 30 quid or so is still a pretty penny).. Speedway in the UK, instead of focusing on having local lads and building their profile, seems to spend hours rearranging fixture lists to ensure a boat load of average journeyman Frenchman, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Slovaks, Italians, etc etc etc all get to race when they tell us they are available.. Names that will mean very little in their own towns and countries never mind locally in towns and cities in England or Scotland.. A very strange plan.. We have to start with a blank piece of paper. And you are quite right, if we were starting from day 1 tomorrow, we would not come up with what we have today. Edited April 2, 2020 by falcace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGould 2,213 Posted April 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: Yes your idea Falcon is a very good one something needs to change in my opinion, and if your suggestion happened i would go with It because i love speedway.Will things change i think not it never has in my lifetime and the chance they had years ago to let the late great John Berry revamp the sport was lost.The real shame of it all is we do have talented people out there who could try and implement change ( i.e.) Bishop,L.Kilby, Painter, Vatcher. Sums up the problem . Three of those names agree 100% with. They have little or no influence though at BSPA which is a closed shop of inward looking thinking.. Bishop promotes an NDL team very well but NDL has always been something the BSPA treat as an aside. Kilby has been around a few Clubs and seems to have found a niche at Swindon, meaning he didn't have time to do much with us brummies, but very positive force. Painter is probably the most interesting, involved in motor sport and speedway for a number of years, he now runs Team GB and in a few years they have developed incredibly well and professionally. throw in 2 other names who could have a lot more influence. Adrian Smith CEO at Belle Vue very professional and forward thinking. Peter Facenna at Glasgow is part of a family who have delivered an amazing business model and invested significant sums in to Glasgow. Smith and Facenna should be spearheading the Sport with Painter (all very successful businessmen) guys like Kilby and Bishop focused on marketing it. Not product that needs tinkering with but dead heading those driving the product and bringing in real talent. All of those will be lost though if they feel they are just banging there head against an immovable brick wall. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,695 Posted April 2, 2020 3 hours ago, racers and royals said: Has Jack Holder retired ?? Nah - probably just sulking somewhere 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
proud panther 1,504 Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, falcace said: "Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read. There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion. There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair. Is it still available to buy, seems like a good time to have a few speedway type books to read ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BluTiger 21,661 Posted April 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, proud panther said: Is it still available to buy, seems like a good time to have a few speedway type books to read ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1098746058/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,549 Posted April 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, Blupanther said: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1098746058/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 Recommended. Worth a read and a re-read. Tony Mac should be paying me for this 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
