Will British Speedway Survive ?

[FAST GATER 852]

We used to run three engines and replace one every year and sell the oldest one off ,the real problem started when our main sponsored rider insisted we buy weslakes and abandon two all but new 4 valve Jawas( 3k worth in late 70's) and a Street conversion  . It was the beginning of the end for us ,you put up with changing handle bars .mudguards,seats ,carbs, wheels ,twist grips,and 6 stud instead from  4 stud clutches ,don't forget in those days you could use as many tyres as you liked (2 every meeting sometimes ) it just went mental !.

The rider in question did not improve his average did not win more races and ironicly I don't think he ever broke many if any track records again  which was  his forte ,as I said plain and utter insanity led by I must have attitude .

Edited March 31, 2020 by FAST GATER

[MattK 3,447]

12 hours ago, mikebv said:

Could the Premiership clubs get 2000 or so on their best night? Paying circa £18 to watch 12 riders Premiership Heat Leader/Second string level or Championship heat leader standard? If so they would make a fair few quid. .

 

No, I don't think they would. That's a play-off finals size crowd, but without any prestige or club loyalty in the mix.

I honestly don't think tinkering with the format or race nights will make a material difference. The problem is promotion or lack thereof. I can walk around Swindon and not see a single indication of the speedway season about to start, even though Swindon's first meeting was theoretically last week. I can walk around Swindon's largest employers and not see a single sign that a speedway team exists in the town.

People aren't going to magically appear about of thin air at the gates. 

[mikebv 10,242]

56 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

Thinking of King's Lynn - I believe that they could pull 2.000 on a Saturday night with the right kind of team format and visiting team variety to make the proposed scheme viable. Providing that the quality of racing on track makes it a VFM night out for the supporters. Riders have a major part to play in making the racing worth watching and rebuilding the sport in 2021.

2000 punters at 18 quid in would gross £36,000. Take out the vat and your still looking at the thick edge of nearly 29 grand..

And that doesnt include car park and bar take for those who own the premises, nor programme sales..

Once a week, using 12 lads of Championship Heat Leader and above standard with a minimum £1000 to ride and around £2500 to the winner of the meeting surely must be a possibility?  

As an example...

Wolves Monday, Poole Wednesday, Swindon Thursday, Belle Vue Friday, Kings Lynn Saturday. Peterborough Sunday.. 

Tuesday can be left for Sweden and the riders to be used at weekend wont be needed in Poland.. 

Plenty of racing for the riders as there are obviously many more tracks to do the same, for all levels of riders..

[mikebv 10,242]

10 minutes ago, MattK said:

No, I don't think they would. That's a play-off finals size crowd, but without any prestige or club loyalty in the mix.

I honestly don't think tinkering with the format or race nights will make a material difference. The problem is promotion or lack thereof. I can walk around Swindon and not see a single indication of the speedway season about to start, even though Swindon's first meeting was theoretically last week. I can walk around Swindon's largest employers and not see a single sign that a speedway team exists in the town.

People aren't going to magically appear about of thin air at the gates. 

It is very much down to marketing though isnt it?

Speedway needs to think much bigger when it comes to selling itself. 

If an individual event had a decent prize fund then I am sure interest would be stirred in the casual follower.

Maybe clubs could do a few 'indys' if the leagues cannot get finished and use sponsors cash to put on a 'biggie or two' which would remind the casual fans the place still exists and give the club a chance to see if certain race nights (with something tangible to ride for) do increase their revenue..

Almost a free hit for them if no team racing to try something different I would think..

[MattK 3,447]

11 minutes ago, mikebv said:

It is very much down to marketing though isnt it?

Speedway needs to think much bigger when it comes to selling itself. 

If an individual event had a decent prize fund then I am sure interest would be stirred in the casual follower.

Maybe clubs could do a few 'indys' if the leagues cannot get finished and use sponsors cash to put on a 'biggie or two' which would remind the casual fans the place still exists and give the club a chance to see if certain race nights (with something tangible to ride for) do increase their revenue..

Almost a free hit for them if no team racing to try something different I would think..

It is very much down to marketing, but I don't think marketing a series of individual meetings is any easier than marketing a team-base league. In fact, I think trying to market the Swindon Robins to people who primarily live in Swindon is a much easier sell than a individual meeting full of riders nobody has heard of.

[mikebv 10,242]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

It is very much down to marketing, but I don't think marketing a series of individual meetings is any easier than marketing a team-base league. In fact, I think trying to market the Swindon Robins to people who primarily live in Swindon is a much easier sell than a individual meeting full of riders nobody has heard of.

I attended a three hour indoor supercross event at the Manchester Arena a couple of years ago that got a 7000 full house at £45 for me and £15 for my then 14 year old lad..

Didn't have a clue who any of the riders were, (and still dont)..

Lots of local marketing, using billboards, flyers given out in the very busy city centre by 'quite attractive' young ladies, riders doing wheelies in the city centre in front of the local TV cameras and newspapers, and a three minute interview on the local news programme explaining what was on offer..

Paid £60, plus won a T shirt fired from an air gun into the crowd, my lad got a free poster signed by 'whoever', I spent a bomb on Coke and Hot Dogs, plus I spent £5 on texting my name to a number to try (unsuccessfully) to win a kids MX bike suspended from the ceiling.

Me and about 3500 other Dad's looking at the amount of mobile phones that were taken out when the competition was announced.

(The bike was worth around £1500 so they made a hell of pile of cash on this competiton)..

Loads of merchandise stalls for the riders to sell their own gear and an autograph/selfie area where riders signed free posters of themselves...

Loads of interviews of riders between racers to get an insight into their personality,  with the local lads being the prime interviewees to illicit some local partisanship from us fans who didn't know them from Adam. Meaning we watched out for them more closely..

Three hours of noise, music, lights, colour, racing and a mike man who kept the whole thing moving at a break neck pace which befits a high octane, adreneline fuelled sport, and your attention never wavered...

Do all that for a Saturday night at a Speedway meeting and you may just have a success on your hands...

[MattK 3,447]

8 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Do all that for a Saturday night at a Speedway meeting and you may just have a success on your hands...

I agree that the presentation of your average speedway meeting is something out of the 1970s.

However, would you go and see supercross every week? That's the fundamental problem club promoters face. Putting on a one-off meeting and charging £45+ a ticket is perfectly possible - the GP does it every year. I don't see how that translates into 20 meetings per season though.

[00000 1,279]

My club, Eastbourne, is planning for when speedway comes back, as witnessed by the detailed statement on the club website which has gone online this morning. As I say on the Eastbourne thread, very informative and open from the Eagles directors. 

They said they would be transparent when they took over and they deliver time and again.

Q and As with Ian Jordan, podcasts answering fans' questions, statements, news releases and Ian is prolific on Facebook too where he also fields questions.

That's surely the way to be.

If you would like to read the statement, it is here

https://www.eastbourne-speedway.com/eastbourne-speedway-statement/

 

[mikebv 10,242]

18 minutes ago, MattK said:

I agree that the presentation of your average speedway meeting is something out of the 1970s.

However, would you go and see supercross every week? That's the fundamental problem club promoters face. Putting on a one-off meeting and charging £45+ a ticket is perfectly possible - the GP does it every year. I don't see how that translates into 20 meetings per season though.

Maybe less really is more?

Putting in loads of second and third rate contrived team speedway undersells the sport's overall potential massively, so put on less meetings but 'bigger events'?

Anything put out that's sub standard is pretty much 'brand damaging' yet it sometimes appears that "any Speedway is better than no Speedway" is the mantra followed..

Hence we applaud (quite rightly) people like Lee Kilby and Barry Bishop, who take a pro active approach to 'a night at the Speedway' and understand that it's the attention to detail that makes the overall entertainment package, not just the racing. .

Maybe some good will come out of a reduced season by clubs trying something different to see if it works..

The 'same old, same old' certainly wasn't working looking at the evidence of the past 25 years or so, so why carry on with doing the same thing?

It's possibly a real opportunity to reinvent itself and start again. .

Fresh ideas, fresh start. .

 

[MattK 3,447]

5 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Maybe less really is more?

Putting in loads of second and third rate contrived team speedway undersells the sport's overall potential massively, so put on less meetings but 'bigger events'?

Anything put out that's sub standard is pretty much 'brand damaging' yet it sometimes appears that "any Speedway is better than no Speedway" is the mantra followed..

Hence we applaud (quite rightly) people like Lee Kilby and Barry Bishop, who take a pro active approach to 'a night at the Speedway' and understand that it's the attention to detail that makes the overall entertainment package, not just the racing. .

Maybe some good will come out of a reduced season by clubs trying something different to see if it works..

The 'same old, same old' certainly wasn't working looking at the evidence of the past 25 years or so, so why carry on with doing the same thing?

It's possibly a real opportunity to reinvent itself and start again. .

Fresh ideas, fresh start. .

 

Less almost certainly is more. However would stadium landlords accept a reduced speedway calendar?

There comes a point where speedway simply isn't cost effective and alternative revenues (or redevelopment) will to be sort. Coupled with the fact that there are fixed costs of riding.

As I said, this all sounds like a race to the bottom which eventually leads to speedway being amateurs racing round in a field.

[waytogo28 2,054]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

People aren't going to magically appear about of thin air at the gates.

That has certainly been the case for all of this century, which is about when the clubs began not to push things as well as they could locally. Under Buster they turned to relying on social media which is not going to work, unless you can get Justin Bieber to go regularly and tell his 100,000,000 plus followers about the joys of speedway racing!

[fatface 2,549]

39 minutes ago, MattK said:

Less almost certainly is more. However would stadium landlords accept a reduced speedway calendar?

There comes a point where speedway simply isn't cost effective and alternative revenues (or redevelopment) will to be sort. Coupled with the fact that there are fixed costs of riding.

As I said, this all sounds like a race to the bottom which eventually leads to speedway being amateurs racing round in a field.

I think - unfortunately - that the race to the bottom is already well into the last lap for speedway. Carrying on as normal is not an option if the sport wants long-term survival.

I think both you and Mike have some valid points. I agree with you that team-based speedway works better than individually, which is pretty much born out across the rest of Europe. But I also think Mike is bang on when he uses the Supercross event as a model that can "cut through" with the average punter.

I've advocated this before, but I think a model that is worth experimenting with is a multi-sport model that would consist of a Saturday/Sunday 4-5 hour event including speedway, sidecars, quads, flat track, stock cars, greyhounds....whatever a venue can handle. Once a month, drawing in families and supporters from all disciplines, providing them with a real value for money experience. With a larger crowd, there is also greater appeal for fair rides, face painters, climbing walls, caterers, inflatables and other operators to attend and add to the atmosphere/experience.

I get that not all the sports on offer appeal to all...so pick and choose! I used to go the Ace of Aces grasstrack every year in the late 80s, early 90s and i was never a big fan of the "chairs", so instead I went on the fair, had a burger, got my pic taken with a page 3 girl (I was a teenager, it was the 80s, happy days! ). I think the sport has to collaborate with other similarly struggling sports to offer a richer, fuller experience to draw in more fans. Who, let's be honest, will be counting their pennies and considering their spend even more than ever when this all ends.

Ask yourself if a family of four are more likely to attend a Thursday night at Foxhall for £36 or a full Sunday afternoon for £50? 

Edited March 31, 2020 by falcace

[iris123 20,935]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

I attended a three hour indoor supercross event at the Manchester Arena a couple of years ago that got a 7000 full house at £45 for me and £15 for my then 14 year old lad..

Didn't have a clue who any of the riders were, (and still dont)..

Lots of local marketing, using billboards, flyers given out in the very busy city centre by 'quite attractive' young ladies, riders doing wheelies in the city centre in front of the local TV cameras and newspapers, and a three minute interview on the local news programme explaining what was on offer..

Paid £60, plus won a T shirt fired from an air gun into the crowd, my lad got a free poster signed by 'whoever', I spent a bomb on Coke and Hot Dogs, plus I spent £5 on texting my name to a number to try (unsuccessfully) to win a kids MX bike suspended from the ceiling.

Me and about 3500 other Dad's looking at the amount of mobile phones that were taken out when the competition was announced.

(The bike was worth around £1500 so they made a hell of pile of cash on this competiton)..

Loads of merchandise stalls for the riders to sell their own gear and an autograph/selfie area where riders signed free posters of themselves...

Loads of interviews of riders between racers to get an insight into their personality,  with the local lads being the prime interviewees to illicit some local partisanship from us fans who didn't know them from Adam. Meaning we watched out for them more closely..

Three hours of noise, music, lights, colour, racing and a mike man who kept the whole thing moving at a break neck pace which befits a high octane, adreneline fuelled sport, and your attention never wavered...

Do all that for a Saturday night at a Speedway meeting and you may just have a success on your hands...

I agree with part of that. I went to a joint speedway/MotoX event and the MotoX jumps were far more spectacular and much better presented than the speedway. Smolinski really ripped into the speedway presentation and said it was old fashioned compared to the spectacular jumps. And I would go to another Night f the Jumps or whatever it is. The things is though, it is a one-off. I wouldn't pay that sort of money weekly nor monthly, and it is I would think repeptetive anyway

As it goes, after not going to a meeting last season (Not because I didn't want to mind, it was more a clash with something else or when I had the time the weather wasn't up to much. And I have enough experience of travelling miles only for a meeting to be called off or pushed through with no actual racing because of the conditions, and won't pay out for that) I was actually looking forward to this season. And now it looks like it will hardly get going

[mikebv 10,242]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

I agree with part of that. I went to a joint speedway/MotoX event and the MotoX jumps were far more spectacular and much better presented than the speedway. Smolinski really ripped into the speedway presentation and said it was old fashioned compared to the spectacular jumps. And I would go to another Night f the Jumps or whatever it is. The things is though, it is a one-off. I wouldn't pay that sort of money weekly nor monthly, and it is I would think repeptetive anyway

As it goes, after not going to a meeting last season (Not because I didn't want to mind, it was more a clash with something else or when I had the time the weather wasn't up to much. And I have enough experience of travelling miles only for a meeting to be called off or pushed through with no actual racing because of the conditions, and won't pay out for that) I was actually looking forward to this season. And now it looks like it will hardly get going

I think Speedway (in this country) needs to get itself an identity..

Every single meeting should be a stand alone event, and promoted as such...

There is too much Speedway that just unfortunately, blandly 'goes through the motions'..

The Supercross event I attended had loads of off track add ons to keep the fans engaged, many of which had minimal costs involved, yet targeted the younger element of the fanbase (which in turn pester the parents!)..

Fan zones, meet and greets, up to date music, lights, colour, noise, an enthusiastic mike man, making personalities of the riders etc etc all can be replicated at a Speedway meeting..

The evening should be geared up with one simple objective. .

And that's to get at least the same amount of people to go again...

And if that gets delivered regularly, the next stage is to grow the attendance organically through the show it puts on...

It can't deliver a 'team sport' in its purest form in the UK so, given the hiatus, maybe it's time to sell the 'spectacle' instead. A spectacle that can reach levels very few stadium sports can match. .

High octane, adreneline fuelled action with an off track dynamic aimed at a demographic (at least) 20 years lower than the current average of regular follower..

However, instead of asking "How will we wow the punters tonight?" and put together an overall "great nights entertainment package at the Speedway" for its fans, it does often appear that some promoters spend more time, energy and emotion checking, double checking and treble checking whether the oppositions "guest" is eligible to ride against them or not....

All in the name of trying to win a match that often only a few hundred actually care enough about to bother attending..

Edited March 31, 2020 by mikebv

[cityrebel 2,960]

A couple of seasons ago BMR put on a motocross demonstration at Rye House during the interval of a speedway meeting. Everyone cleared off to the bar. Speedway fans are different from fans of other motorsports, maybe that is the problem.