In what order would you place these Aussie greats???

[YerRopes 3,009]

Hate to say it, but without doubt Darcy Ward first, followed by Leigh Adams in second (I may be biased) and Jason Crump third.. 

Doyley hopefully soon.. 

[DC2 11,150]

1 minute ago, YerRopes said:

Hate to say it, but without doubt Darcy Ward first, followed by Leigh Adams in second (I may be biased) and Jason Crump third.. 

Doyley hopefully soon.. 

 

The one thing Leigh achieved which Darcy didn’t was unbelievable consistency everywhere he rode over a very long period and not picking and choosing his degree of commitment.

 

[YerRopes 3,009]

1 minute ago, DC2 said:

 

The one thing Leigh achieved which Darcy didn’t was unbelievable consistency everywhere he rode over a very long period and not picking and choosing his degree of commitment.

 

I agree with that.. 

However for pure talent on a motorcycle, Ward is right up there with Kelly Moran and Michael Lee.. 

 

[E I Addio 15,843]

On 3/29/2020 at 11:43 AM, norbold said:

Hmm...difficult one that. Especially deciding between Crump Jnr and Youngie for no. 1. Apart from Fundin, Crump Jnr is the only rider to finish on the podium in ten successive seasons which should make him the no.1. However, I would say that at no time was he clearly the best rider in the world in the same way that Young was. Young dominated the early 1950s in the same way as say Rickardsson did in the 2000s. To offset that however, Youngie was not in or around the elite for as long as Crumpie. My instinct would be that if we are looking at Young just in the first three or four years of the 1950s, then he would be top. If over their whole career, then Crump Jnr.

So, having weighed all that up, I would go for 1. Crump Jnr 2. Young 3. Adams 4. Sanders 5. Crump Snr.

Good post. The only thing I would add is that from everything I have read about Jack Young it seems that good as he was he wasn’t as good as he could have been. He didn’t even start till he was into his 20’s, and in a very different world in those days it seems he didnt take things too seriously. One might say he was perhaps one of the last of what we might call the paid “amateurs” . No special fitness regimes, no special engines, he seems to have relied on pure talent . I think he was world champion within about 5 years of taking the sport up on a converted road bike, and by his second season he was beating some of the top Aussies of the day. In his first season with Edinburgh in the Second Division he beat Jack Parker twice in a special match race. He was perhaps a tad lucky with his first World Final win, that Jackie Biggs nerves apparently got the better of him , but being World Champion means you have to overcome your nerves. I forget the actual statistics when he replaced the great Aub Lawson at West Ham but it was something like 19 maximums in 38 matches.  But the speedway world was about to change when Fundin and Briggs came along....

I wouldn’t object to Jack Young being placed second to Crump but he certainly deserves a top two position.

BTW, what happened to the under rated Aub Lawson when considering great Aussies ? 
 

Coming back to Crump J., though, he was somewhat unlucky to be around at the same time as one of speedways all time legends. If there had been no Richardson how many World Titles would Jason have won ? 

[BluTiger 21,661]

10 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Good post. The only thing I would add is that from everything I have read about Jack Young it seems that good as he was he wasn’t as good as he could have been. He didn’t even start till he was into his 20’s, and in a very different world in those days it seems he didnt take things too seriously. One might say he was perhaps one of the last of what we might call the paid “amateurs” . No special fitness regimes, no special engines, he seems to have relied on pure talent . I think he was world champion within about 5 years of taking the sport up on a converted road bike, and by his second season he was beating some of the top Aussies of the day. In his first season with Edinburgh in the Second Division he beat Jack Parker twice in a special match race. He was perhaps a tad lucky with his first World Final win, that Jackie Biggs nerves apparently got the better of him , but being World Champion means you have to overcome your nerves. I forget the actual statistics when he replaced the great Aub Lawson at West Ham but it was something like 19 maximums in 38 matches.  But the speedway world was about to change when Fundin and Briggs came along....

I wouldn’t object to Jack Young being placed second to Crump but he certainly deserves a top two position.

BTW, what happened to the under rated Aub Lawson when considering great Aussies ? 
 

Coming back to Crump J., though, he was somewhat unlucky to be around at the same time as one of speedways all time legends. If there had been no Richardson how many World Titles would Jason have won ? 

Three more i would say...

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

9 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Good post. The only thing I would add is that from everything I have read about Jack Young it seems that good as he was he wasn’t as good as he could have been. He didn’t even start till he was into his 20’s, and in a very different world in those days it seems he didnt take things too seriously. One might say he was perhaps one of the last of what we might call the paid “amateurs” . No special fitness regimes, no special engines, he seems to have relied on pure talent . I think he was world champion within about 5 years of taking the sport up on a converted road bike, and by his second season he was beating some of the top Aussies of the day. In his first season with Edinburgh in the Second Division he beat Jack Parker twice in a special match race. He was perhaps a tad lucky with his first World Final win, that Jackie Biggs nerves apparently got the better of him , but being World Champion means you have to overcome your nerves. I forget the actual statistics when he replaced the great Aub Lawson at West Ham but it was something like 19 maximums in 38 matches.  But the speedway world was about to change when Fundin and Briggs came along....

I wouldn’t object to Jack Young being placed second to Crump but he certainly deserves a top two position.

BTW, what happened to the under rated Aub Lawson when considering great Aussies ? 
 

Coming back to Crump J., though, he was somewhat unlucky to be around at the same time as one of speedways all time legends. If there had been no Richardson how many World Titles would Jason have won ? 

Addio i actually think that to keep sticking at it like Jason did took some doing he was often playing second fiddle to Ricko.. His consistently over a long period was superb and i can also remember in his younger days he was a bit of a hothead and not flavour of the month with everybody.But how he ended up being a complete professional a superb example to young riders and he went out at the top.Going back to Young do you think Jack was similar to Ronnie Moore  Addio??? Mirac  never took thing's that seriously but what a rider he was his legacy will live forever.

[Terry 1,319]

Watching all the countless 5-1's Ward and Holder got at Poole, Darcy always seemed to be controlling the race and creating the space for his partner. He had a great racing brain..Such a loss for the sport when he suffered his injury.

 

[E I Addio 15,843]

28 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Addio i actually think that to keep sticking at it like Jason did took some doing he was often playing second fiddle to Ricko.. His consistently over a long period was superb and i can also remember in his younger days he was a bit of a hothead and not flavour of the month with everybody.But how he ended up being a complete professional a superb example to young riders and he went out at the top.Going back to Young do you think Jack was similar to Ronnie Moore  Addio??? Mirac  never took thing's that seriously but what a rider he was his legacy will live forever.

You raise a good point Sid .  I think Jack and Ronnie were probably very, very , similar in many ways. I only saw Ronnie Moore at the end of his career after he came back from retirement but boy he was good. His effortless style made an impression that still sticks with me today. Not surprising that many people say Ronnie was the most naturally talented rider that ever sat on a bike. Jack was said to have an “armchair ‘style  in the sense he just sat on the bike as if he was sitting in an armchair, letting the bike do all the work, unlike many later riders that climb all over the bike. 
Leigh Adams was another like it . A very unspectacular style, but not an ounce of effort wasted, and with the bike under perfect control at all times, and an uncanny ability to find grip where others couldn’t.

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by E I Addio

[waiheke1 4,295]

49 minutes ago, Terry said:

Watching all the countless 5-1's Ward and Holder got at Poole, Darcy always seemed to be controlling the race and creating the space for his partner. He had a great racing brain..Such a loss for the sport when he suffered his injury.

 

I agree. I remember the first time i saw Darcy live, he just seemed to see lines that other riders didn't and be seconds ahead in his vision. Of all the riders lost prematurely to the sport in my era watching, his was the one I was most gutted about being lost to speedway. 

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

You raise a good point Sid .  I think Jack and Ronnie were probably very, very , similar in many ways. I only saw Ronnie Moore at the end of his career after he came back from retirement but boy he was good. His effortless style made an impression that still sticks with me today. Not surprising that many people say Ronnie was the most naturally talented rider that ever sat on a bike. Jack was said to have an “armchair ‘style  in the sense he just sat on the bike as if he was sitting in an armchair, letting the bike do all the work, unlike many later riders that climb all over the bike. 
Leigh Adams was another like it . A very unspectacular style, but not an ounce of effort wasted, and with the bike under perfect control at all times, and an uncanny ability to find grip where others couldn’t.

 

I only see Ronnie ride 4/5 times yet like yourself he left an impression on me a superb stylist who didn't look the quickest but boy his track craft was second to none.To think he had the six year lay off until 1969  yet came back to ride at a really high level.And really his time was the mid 50s both Briggo/Ivan said he was a better rider than both of them  and really that says it all.On you tube the DVD of Wimbledon shows Ronnie beating Ivan at Plough lane never tire of watching that race Ronnie totally controlling it .

Edited March 30, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[chunky 6,082]

4 hours ago, YerRopes said:

I agree with that.. 

However for pure talent on a motorcycle, Ward is right up there with Kelly Moran and Michael Lee.. 

 

Uunfortunately, talent and potential doesn't equal greatness. We have three supremely talented individuals there who mustered just a single world title between them.

[norbold 7,098]

20 hours ago, E I Addio said:

 

BTW, what happened to the under rated Aub Lawson when considering great Aussies ? 
 

Two points. 
1. If we are considering all Aussies and not just the five Sidney randomly chose in the op, you would certainly have to also include Frank Arthur, Vic Huxley, Max Grosskreutz, Bluey Wilkinson, Lionel Van Praag, Vic Duggan, Graham Warren amongst others. 

2. As for Aub Lawson, he would most certainly have to be considered for a top five place. He had an amazing  career, being a leading rider from 1939 to 1960. One of the longest careers as a top class rider of anyone in the history of the sport, along with riders like Jack Parker, Ronnie Moore and Greg Hancock and even though his best years were probably just after the War, he was still, towards the end of his career, able to mix it with the likes of the "Big Five". In fact he was one of only three riders to break the World Championship Podium monopoly of the "Big Five" between 1955 and 1963, when he came third in 1958. (The other two by the way were Arthur Forrest and Gote Nordin.)

Edited March 31, 2020 by norbold
Typo!

[iris123 20,933]

Certainly Grosskreutz had a relatively long career, from the late 20s until the 50s I think, whereas a lot of the early Aussie greats seemed to get in, earn a lot of money and get out of the sport fairly quickly .He did though, retire and comeback a number of time. Once I think his retirement only lasted a couple of weeks

Edited March 31, 2020 by iris123

[Split 177]

14 hours ago, norbold said:

Two points. 
1. If we are considering all Aussies and not just the five Sidney randomly chose in the op, you would certainly have to also include Frank Arthur, Vic Huxley, Max Grosskreutz, Bluey Wilkinson, Lionel Van Praag, Vic Duggan, Graham Warren amongst others. 

2. As for Aub Lawson, he would most certainly have to be considered for a top five place. He had an amazing  career, being a leading rider from 1939 to 1960. One of the longest careers as a top class rider of anyone in the history of the sport, along with riders like Jack Parker, Ronnie Moore and Greg Hancock and even though his best years were probably just after the War, he was still, towards the end of his career, able to mix it with the likes of the "Big Five". In fact he was one of only three riders to break the World Championship Podium monopoly of the "Big Five" between 1955 and 1963, when he came third in 1958. (The other two by the way were Arthur Forrest and Gote Nordic.)

If we extend that period to 1965, Igor Plechanov (twice runner -up) comes into the picture.  It’s generally accepted that the “Big Five” – were in a class of their own during the early - mid '60's but who was the best rider outside that elite club? Ron How, Ken McKinley, Peter Moore and Gote Nordin come to mind but Plechanov edges it for me. Many people (me included) consider him possibly the best rider never to win the world title.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Split

[iris123 20,933]

I would have loved to have seen those early Soviet tests in the 60s. Well, I might have, but have no memory of which teams I saw in those days