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In what order would you place these Aussie greats???

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In my humble opinion, I would place Jason Crump (1st), Jack Young (2nd), Leigh Adams (3rd), Vic Duggan (4th) and probably one of the pre-WW2 Aussies e.g. Grosskreutz or Wilkinson 5th.

Darcy Ward could have achieved a lot more, but for his career being finished by injury. Unfortunately, he doesn't make the top five on achievement for that reason; not aided by some poor decisions/lifestyle choices earlier in his career.

Chris Holder won a GP Series to be crowned World Champion, but having reached the summit, his career seems to have headed downhill. Others mentioned, such as Billy Sanders were never amongst the elite at the top of the sport in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I don't think he can be compared to the likes of Olsen, Mauger, Penhall, Gundersen, Nielsen and Lee, who were around in the same period.

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1 hour ago, Split said:

If we extend that period to 1965, Igor Plechanov (twice runner -up) comes into the picture.  It’s generally accepted that the “Big Five” – were in a class of their own during the early - mid '60's but who was the best rider outside that elite club? Ron How, Ken McKinley, Peter Moore and Gote Nordin come to mind but Plechanov edges it for me. Many people (me included) consider him possibly the best rider never to win the world title.

I would agree with that. It's a shame Plechanov was unable to ride in the West on a regular basis. Had he done so, I think he would have won at least one World title and we may be talking about a "Big Six".

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41 minutes ago, moomin man 76 said:

In my humble opinion, I would place Jason Crump (1st), Jack Young (2nd), Leigh Adams (3rd), Vic Duggan (4th) and probably one of the pre-WW2 Aussies e.g. Grosskreutz or Wilkinson 5th.

 

It is, of course, really impossible to talk about pre-War from a first hand knowledge of having seen the riders and then comparing them with more recent riders and those still around today, but going purely on the record books and discussions I have had in the past with those who were around at that time, I think the two outstanding Aussies from that period were Vic Huxley, the dominant rider (all nationalities) of the late 20s and early 30s and Bluey Wilkinson, the dominant rider (all nationalities) of the late 1930s.

In fact, again, just purely from records and talking, I would place them as one and two in the all time Aussie list. I would also certainly put Vic Duggan above Leigh Adams.

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1 hour ago, norbold said:

It is, of course, really impossible to talk about pre-War from a first hand knowledge of having seen the riders and then comparing them with more recent riders and those still around today, but going purely on the record books and discussions I have had in the past with those who were around at that time, I think the two outstanding Aussies from that period were Vic Huxley, the dominant rider (all nationalities) of the late 20s and early 30s and Bluey Wilkinson, the dominant rider (all nationalities) of the late 1930s.

In fact, again, just purely from records and talking, I would place them as one and two in the all time Aussie list. I would also certainly put Vic Duggan above Leigh Adams.

I think I may have mentioned this in a previous post but I remember coming across a stat that said that Vic Huxley had the best start/win ratio of any rider in the history of the sport. Of course it’s difficult to compare riders of a bygone era with those of modern times but a record like that is hard to argue with.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, norbold said:

I would agree with that. It's a shame Plechanov was unable to ride in the West on a regular basis. Had he done so, I think he would have won at least one World title and we may be talking about a "Big Six".

Yes Plechanov can be named amongst   Adams,Harrfeldt, , Jessup ,Sigalos,Warren   as riders who were all good anough to be World Champion.

Edited by Sidney the robin

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 4:16 PM, norbold said:

It is, of course, really impossible to talk about pre-War from a first hand knowledge of having seen the riders and then comparing them with more recent riders and those still around today, but going purely on the record books and discussions I have had in the past with those who were around at that time, I think the two outstanding Aussies from that period were Vic Huxley, the dominant rider (all nationalities) of the late 20s and early 30s and Bluey Wilkinson, the dominant rider (all nationalities) of the late 1930s.

In fact, again, just purely from records and talking, I would place them as one and two in the all time Aussie list. I would also certainly put Vic Duggan above Leigh Adams.

I think there was something of a crisis pre-war in that Australia lacked newcomers and were relying on the pioneer riders for some time and some of them were retiring fairly early, like Arthur and Huxley

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Often heard at Newport oldies say Phil Crump had more talent than Jason but didn’t have the cutting edge to be world champ. 
 

Jason crump I thought was superb , had it all he really did. Was unlucky to be around in Richardson’s era else he could of had 4/5/6 titles to his name. 

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19 minutes ago, Pinny said:


 

Jason crump I thought was superb , had it all he really did. Was unlucky to be around in Richardson’s era else he could of had 4/5/6 titles to his name. 

My view entirely. Jason was a bit of a hothead early on but as you say he really had it all in the finish . Personally I would put him among the all time greats

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49 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Often heard at Newport oldies say Phil Crump had more talent than Jason but didn’t have the cutting edge to be world champ. 
 

Jason crump I thought was superb , had it all he really did. Was unlucky to be around in Richardson’s era else he could of had 4/5/6 titles to his name. 

I remember Phil when he was at Newport (1974) and he was almost unbeatable round there after a season out thru' injury and was superb...lowering the long existing Oxford track record in the process. Of course by 1975 he was riding the Street 4 Valve conversion which enable him to get a head start on many before the four valve revolution crept its way into speedway. He was a class act up until a very bad crash at Sheffield in 1977 and from then onwards remained a solid dependable number one for a number of seasons but lost out on the international stage in my opinion.

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7 hours ago, E I Addio said:

My view entirely. Jason was a bit of a hothead early on but as you say he really had it all in the finish . Personally I would put him among the all time greats

When i first got into the sport he wasnt very popular , due to him being a spoilt brat type character but he certainly got my respect as years went by. Any rider who won a title during Rickardssons years deserves a lot of credit. 

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6 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I remember Phil when he was at Newport (1974) and he was almost unbeatable round there after a season out thru' injury and was superb...lowering the long existing Oxford track record in the process. Of course by 1975 he was riding the Street 4 Valve conversion which enable him to get a head start on many before the four valve revolution crept its way into speedway. He was a class act up until a very bad crash at Sheffield in 1977 and from then onwards remained a solid dependable number one for a number of seasons but lost out on the international stage in my opinion.

Never seen him ride obviously but the oldies at Newport absolutely loved him so must of been pretty good!!!! 
 

a class speedway family , Neil Street was a great bloke too

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Pinny said:

When i first got into the sport he wasnt very popular , due to him being a spoilt brat type character but he certainly got my respect as years went by. Any rider who won a title during Rickardssons years deserves a lot of credit. 

I lost a bit of respect for Jason during the year he rode for Oxford when he slapped team mate Todd Wiltshire after a racing incident which was purely accidental however I re-gained my faith in him in later years when he went on to become one of the world beaters and mellowed...like us all, I suppose, with age comes a more mature approach to life in general or I would hope!

Edited by steve roberts

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11 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I lost a bit of respect for Jason during the year he rode for Oxford when he slapped team mate Todd Wiltshire after a racing incident which was purely accidental however I re-gained my faith in him in later years when he went on to become one of the world beaters and mellowed...like us all, I suppose, with age comes a more mature approach to life in general or I would hope!

I think that most of us had a problem with Jason in his early years (because of his attitude), but I too developed a much greater respect for him as he matured.

Funny thing is, I was talking to his manager (before Jason reached his greatness), and he said that Jason needed his dad's attitude and temperament, and that Phil would have greatly benefited from Jason's drive and tenacity. Basically, a combination of the two Crumps would have been the perfect speedway rider!

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3 minutes ago, chunky said:

I think that most of us had a problem with Jason in his early years (because of his attitude), but I too developed a much greater respect for him as he matured.

Funny thing is, I was talking to his manager (before Jason reached his greatness), and he said that Jason needed his dad's attitude and temperament, and that Phil would have greatly benefited from Jason's drive and tenacity. Basically, a combination of the two Crumps would have been the perfect speedway rider!

I think post 2000 ish Jason alone was the perfect speedway rider. 

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