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jchapman

British Speedway to be reborn?

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5 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

Yep

Still unable to contribute to grown up debate then ?

Still unable to comply with forum rules not to amend another members post.

Prat.

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18 hours ago, bruno said:

Anyone who thinks what was working 30 - 40 years ago is the way forward is deluded. However, the way things are now is definitely not working. The answer? No idea. 

No what needs to happen is to look back then and see if we can make it happen today , no one is advocating a league of regression merely  hitting the reset button

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Keep reading threads and a big point keeps coming up about standard engines. Think the biggest mistake was they didn’t make the gerhard engine compulsory for the national league within two years of the time the got involved with them. 

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1 hour ago, FAST GATER said:

No what needs to happen is to look back then and see if we can make it happen today , no one is advocating a league of regression merely  hitting the reset button

Looking back to the glory days the answer is simple. All the top riders were here then but that's never going to happen again. Without being a defeatist I can't see how we can change things around over here especially with the current situation as well. Would love to be proved wrong tho

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2 hours ago, bruno said:

Looking back to the glory days the answer is simple. All the top riders were here then but that's never going to happen again. Without being a defeatist I can't see how we can change things around over here especially with the current situation as well. Would love to be proved wrong tho

I honestly don't believe that you need the top riders in the world in the UK. If you're trying to attract new support to tracks then the top riders make little difference the likes of Nikki Pedersen Chris Holder etc etc are not known outside of the speedway world. 

However the entertainment level needs massive work so the place to start is with the bikes that clearly do not suit the vast majority of UK tracks and cost a fortune to run a cost that UK speedway can't support. 

 

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2 hours ago, bruno said:

Looking back to the glory days the answer is simple. All the top riders were here then but that's never going to happen again. Without being a defeatist I can't see how we can change things around over here especially with the current situation as well. Would love to be proved wrong tho

There little we can do with the tracks most of which do date back to the 60's /70's so the only alternative is do something with the engines this  is more than possible with the right input.I would set up a body of newly retired riders or one's who are nearing  the end of their careers(  they would be much more open minded )  and get to experiment with for example 2 valve uprights ( just as a baseline to start from)   or alike.  Take them to every track in the country and test them out under friendly but competitive conditions ,this could be done now behind closed doors and take advantage of the lockdown .

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The problem with standardised motors, good idea it may be, is what to do with existing engines.  My suggestion would a BHP limit together with soon-ish the to be introduced rev liniters. Riders would get their power read outs carried out as proof at a local motorcyle test centre or a speedway tuner, with random testing done by SCB or ACU using a rolling road in order to police such limits.  That way riders could keep existing engines but change internal component(a) at their own discretion in order to reach any hoursepower limit.....

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Posted (edited)

What to do with existing motors ( which will be useless if their is no sport  left)should not stop change maybe an exchange system for new standard engines ,if an alternative was found then perhaps  a scrapage scheme or alike .If the Poles stay as they are they may take them and say the GP riders ,what must not happen is  the riders stopping this with their obsession for more power and speed . It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas that's why I say use riders who are newly retired etc they have an open informed  mind hopefully .

Edited by FAST GATER
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I think some sort of engine cost reduction is desirable but not uprights or two valves really because of the need for everybodys engines to become obsolete overnight. The cost reduction of having 2 valves v 4 is minimal in my opinion and changing to uprights would achieve nothing more than making the rest of the bike obsolete as well. As I've said before just the rev limiter set at a low level would make most of the expensive parts unnecessary on it's own. It has to be remembered that unlike just about every other motorsport having a less powerful engine will often make it more difficult to ride and in many ways harder to set up. I like the idea of a minimum stroke as well but not sure if you can get that with short stroke cases, however it seems that over time less revs would mean riders going back to longer stroke engines anyway.

Sticking to laydown chassis also means that if engine rules are different for divisions or leagues you could quickly fit a different engine into your existing equipment or possibly even just different rev limiters.

As for the standard of racing being the most important thing it seems entirely logical but what just about every promoter will tell you is that home wins produce the best crowds.

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7 minutes ago, Vince said:

I think some sort of engine cost reduction is desirable but not uprights or two valves really because of the need for everybodys engines to become obsolete overnight. The cost reduction of having 2 valves v 4 is minimal in my opinion and changing to uprights would achieve nothing more than making the rest of the bike obsolete as well. As I've said before just the rev limiter set at a low level would make most of the expensive parts unnecessary on it's own. It has to be remembered that unlike just about every other motorsport having a less powerful engine will often make it more difficult to ride and in many ways harder to set up. I like the idea of a minimum stroke as well but not sure if you can get that with short stroke cases, however it seems that over time less revs would mean riders going back to longer stroke engines anyway.

Sticking to laydown chassis also means that if engine rules are different for divisions or leagues you could quickly fit a different engine into your existing equipment or possibly even just different rev limiters.

As for the standard of racing being the most important thing it seems entirely logical but what just about every promoter will tell you is that home wins produce the best crowds.

I agree with much of what you say my idea of baseline  test was to show that a significant amount   of changes to engines over the last 20 odd years  has increased cost and little else ,if that was proved we maybe able to address the costs to riders  .

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15 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Keep reading threads and a big point keeps coming up about standard engines. Think the biggest mistake was they didn’t make the gerhard engine compulsory for the national league within two years of the time the got involved with them. 

But who was going to pay for that? They cost £5000 each: which meant that practically every rider in the country would be ten grand at least out of pocket! As for upright engines: they are exactly the same as laydowns, except for the oil breather. I sold one to a rider (who posts on this forum), and he fitted it to an upright frame and won amateur races with it.

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1 minute ago, *JJ said:

But who was going to pay for that? They cost £5000 each: which meant that practically every rider in the country would be ten grand at least out of pocket  As for upright engines: they are exactly the same as laydowns, except for the oil breather. I sold one to a rider (who posts on this forum he fitted it to an upright frame and won amateur races with it.

I don’t disagree with the costs but if the engine was what they said it was you would only need one. They could of done a HP type deal on them and with service intervals being less surely costs would of been eventually evened up. I get this wouldn’t of been ideal but there has to be a commitment from both sides. Currently we have riders wanting more money because costs are high, we have promotions wanting to cut costs because out goings are to high yet neither side has the will to come together for the good of the sport .

just my opinion really 

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26 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

I agree with much of what you say my idea of baseline  test was to show that a significant amount   of changes to engines over the last 20 odd years  has increased cost and little else ,if that was proved we maybe able to address the costs to riders  .

It may address the cost to riders, but how does that help clubs?

Let me give you an example, say I earn £50k and drive a 6.3 litre V8 costing me £100 a week. I trade it in for a more economical 1.6 litre diesel. Do I tell my employer that they can reduce my wages? Of course not, I pocket the difference.

Why would that be any different if the costs incurred by speedway riders were reduced?

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10 minutes ago, MattK said:

It may address the cost to riders, but how does that help clubs?

Let me give you an example, say I earn £50k and drive a 6.3 litre V8 costing me £100 a week. I trade it in for a more economical 1.6 litre diesel. Do I tell my employer that they can reduce my wages? Of course not, I pocket the difference.

Why would that be any different if the costs incurred by speedway riders were reduced?

 

Well, it would if you’re looking to reduce their wages.

Isn’t that the whole point of the discussion?  Getting costs down so we can lower the entrance fee or spend more money on improving the stadium or track?

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