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BL65

World Final consistency

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Or if it had been held at Newport maybe Jackie Biggs could have finally made it-after all he almost did at Wembley in 1951

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Or if it had been held at Ipswich, Savalas Clouting could have been World Champion.

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Not to mention Buzz Burrows if it was held at Plough Lane.....he might have needed a wildcard through though

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On 5/5/2020 at 9:03 PM, waiheke1 said:

Very interesting. 

Agree also that you cant compare the stats from the GP era as the fields are stronger, and the semi-final/final format means top riders meet each other even more (up to 3 times a meeting). 

That comfort zone of knowing you only  have to get to a semi and can still win the meeting for me makes it easier now though.Do i think the series as being  particularly strong now yes it is strong but there are a few riders there on the way down and at the moment are not being replaced by fresh blood.

Edited by Sidney the robin
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Found this interesting. A thread on the German forum about the Master of Speedway series, which at the beginning was a bit like a short GP series

1978 with a round in Bremen, Gothenburg and two in Vojens

 

1.Peter Collins GB 27 2.Ole Olsen DK 22 3.Michael Lee GB 10 4.John Davis GB 9 5.Malcolm Simmons GB 8 6.Dave Jessup GB 6 7.Phil Crump AUS 6 8.Gordon Kennett GB 5 9.Ivan Mauger NZ 4 10.Tommy Nilsson S 2 11.Jan Andersson S 1

Of course the world final that year was Olsen,Kennett, Autrey

 

 

1979 with 3 rounds in Germany, Sweden and Denmark

1.Bruce Penhall USA 34 2.Peter Collins GB 27 3.Scott Autrey USA 27 4.Michael Lee GB 19 5.Gordon Kennett GB 17 6.Ole Olsen DK 17 7.Hans Nielsen DK 15 8.Dave Jessup GB 12 9.Billy Sanders AUS 9 10.Phil Crump AUS 8 11.Anders Michanek S 5 12.Malcolm Simmons GB 3 13.Hans Holmqvist S 3 14.Ivan Mauger NZ 1 15.Michael Lohman DK 1

World final was Mauger,Plech,Lee

 

 

1980 and only two rounds in Germany and Denmark

1.Hans Nielsen DK 30 2.Bruce Penhall USA 22 3.Chris Morton GB 20 4.Ole Olsen DK 15 5.Peter Collins GB 14 6.Dave Jessup GB 11 7.Gordon Kennett GB 5 8.Michael Lee GB 4 9.Ivan Mauger NZ 3 10.Tommy Knudsen DK 3 11.John Davis GB 2 12.Svend Lund DK 2 13.Jens-Henry Nielsen DK 1

World Final was Lee, Jessup, Sanders

 

1981 was two round only in Germany and after that it wasn't really worth mentioning

1.Hans Nielsen DK 27 2.Bruce Penhall USA 16 3.Egon Müller D 15 4.Bobby Schwartz USA 12 5.Erik Gundersen DK 10 6.George Gilgenreiner D 10 7.Bo Petersen DK 6 8.Josef Aigner D 6 9.Ole Olsen DK 6 10.Jan Andersson S 5 11.Chris Morton GB 5 12.Georg Hack D 4 13.Dave Jessup GB 3 14.Billy Sanders AUS 3 15.Larry Ross NZ 2 16.Peter Würtele D 1 17.Peter Collins GB 1

World final Penhall, Olsen, Knudsen

https://www.speedway-forum.de/forum/index.php?thread/18836-master-of-speedway-bremen-1978-1988/

Edited by iris123
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Continuing the original list:
31= Peter Craven, Jack Parker, Split Waterman 1.92
34= Jimmy Nilsen, Igor Plechanov 1.90
36 Soren Sjosten 1.87
37 Anders Michanek 1.86
38 Henrik Gustafsson 1.85
39= Brian Crutcher, Bill Kitchen 1.80
41 Peter Collins 1.78
42 Kelvin Tatum 1.74
43 Phil Crump 1.73
44= Jeremy Doncaster, Dave Jessup 1.70
46 Antoni Woryna 1.68
47 Eric Langton 1.67
48= Ron Johnston, Tony Rickardsson 1.65
50 Aub Lawson 1.62

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54 minutes ago, BL65 said:

Continuing the original list:
31= Peter Craven, Jack Parker, Split Waterman 1.92
34= Jimmy Nilsen, Igor Plechanov 1.90
36 Soren Sjosten 1.87
37 Anders Michanek 1.86
38 Henrik Gustafsson 1.85
39= Brian Crutcher, Bill Kitchen 1.80
41 Peter Collins 1.78
42 Kelvin Tatum 1.74
43 Phil Crump 1.73
44= Jeremy Doncaster, Dave Jessup 1.70
46 Antoni Woryna 1.68
47 Eric Langton 1.67
48= Ron Johnston, Tony Rickardsson 1.65
50 Aub Lawson 1.62

Interesting to see Anders Michanek down at 37...his best efforts in 1974 & 75 and altough one of the favourites in 1973 he never got going after a first race tape exclusion if I recall?

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On 5/7/2020 at 2:55 AM, Sidney the robin said:

1) That comfort zone of knowing you only  have to get to a semi and can still win the meeting for me makes it easier now though.

2) Do i think the series as being  particularly strong now yes it is strong but there are a few riders there on the way down and at the moment are not being replaced by fresh blood.

1) But if it is easier for one rider, it easier for everyone. It is the equivalent of 11 riders qualifying from the I-C Final, and the top riders struggled there too at times.

2) That may be true, but just because a rider is past his peak, it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be there, and it doesn't mean that they are worse than younger riders who aren't there.

If you trying to have a true world championship, then fresh blood doesn't matter; the goal is to have the BEST riders on the world. Again, it was no different in the old days. Olsen, Davis, Michanek, and even Collins were well past their peak, and were still qualifying for world finals. If they are still good enough, then good luck to them...

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On 5/7/2020 at 7:55 AM, Sidney the robin said:

That comfort zone of knowing you only  have to get to a semi and can still win the meeting for me makes it easier now though.Do i think the series as being  particularly strong now yes it is strong but there are a few riders there on the way down and at the moment are not being replaced by fresh blood.

Sorry Sid, that doesn't really make sense.

In the old World Final you often had five riders who were totally out of their depth.

After a couple of rides you had as much as half the field out of contention.

In a GP it's far from easier, firstly because of the reason you have used to suggest its easier to score, the semi finals...  it means much more of the field has something to race for..

And even without the semi-finals, every single pt in every single race counts towards their overall season end standing. There's no slacking of or just dialing it in as it all counts.

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8 minutes ago, chunky said:

1) But if it is easier for one rider, it easier for everyone. It is the equivalent of 11 riders qualifying from the I-C Final, and the top riders struggled there too at times.

2) That may be true, but just because a rider is past his peak, it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be there, and it doesn't mean that they are worse than younger riders who aren't there.

If you trying to have a true world championship, then fresh blood doesn't matter; the goal is to have the BEST riders on the world. Again, it was no different in the old days. Olsen, Davis, Michanek, and even Collins were well past their peak, and were still qualifying for world finals. If they are still good enough, then good luck to them...

Look me and you have always seemed to have a prickley relationship .dont know why we seem to agree most of the time,

.. But we clash now and again but believe it or not i do really respect what you say and hopefully we can call a truce.

 

 

 

 in 

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3 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Sorry Sid, that doesn't really make sense.

In the old World Final you often had five riders who were totally out of their depth.

After a couple of rides you had as much as half the field out of contention.

In a GP it's far from easier, firstly because of the reason you have used to suggest its easier to score, the semi finals...  it means much more of the field has something to race for..

And even without the semi-finals, every single pt in every single race counts towards their overall season end standing. There's no slacking of or just dialing it in as it all counts.

Riders all had different qualifying systems, and it was possible to scrape through a couple of meetings, put in one good night, and you were World Champ! Now, you have to perform over a whole season.

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4 minutes ago, chunky said:

Riders all had different qualifying systems, and it was possible to scrape through a couple of meetings, put in one good night, and you were World Champ! Now, you have to perform over a whole season.

Think that is one thing that those who look back with fondness don't see. The way the system was unfair on some, giving them tough meetings and gave others a fairly easy route through.Ok you get a few wildcards now, but they are generally people who deserve it....

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1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said:

Look me and you have always seemed to have a prickley relationship .dont know why we seem to agree most of the time,

.. But we clash now and again but believe it or not i do really respect what you say and hopefully we can call a truce.

 

 

 

 in 

It's got nothing to do anything except having different opinions, and as such, there is no need for a "truce". As long as you don't get rude and aggressive, and you can stop making false accusations, there should no problems.

You just have to accept that I am allowed to have opinions that differ from yours, and that I base them on logic, reason, and fact, rather than personal bias.

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10 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Think that is one thing that those who look back with fondness don't see. The way the system was unfair on some, giving them tough meetings and gave others a fairly easy route through.Ok you get a few wildcards now, but they are generally people who deserve it....

Yeah, some World Champions won the title after one or two meetings, whereas others had to ride in three or four times that. Now, everybody starts out on an equal footing.

Edited by chunky

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32 minutes ago, chunky said:

It's got nothing to do anything except having different opinions, and as such, there is no need for a "truce". As long as you don't get rude and aggressive, and you can stop making false accusations, there should no problems.

You just have to accept that I am allowed to have opinions that differ from yours, and that I base them on logic, reason, and fact, rather than personal bias.

 

33 minutes ago, chunky said:

It's got nothing to do anything except having different opinions, and as such, there is no need for a "truce". As long as you don't get rude and aggressive, and you can stop making false accusations, there should no problems.

You just have to accept that I am allowed to have opinions that differ from yours, and that I base them on logic, reason, and fact, rather than personal bias.

You also need to look in the mirror and be HONEST wth yourself Chunky. Logic and Fact really so sorry Chunky don't see you have displayed that much in your  recent post's. Tried to be adult with you call a truce try to move on with you but you are not interested your call I suppose.

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