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HackneyHawk

Time to have an enquiry into the death of Speedway

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One thing the powers that be who run speedway have to decide in the future is do you market it as a team sport or an individual sport because you can't have both.

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14 minutes ago, JamesHarris said:

One thing the powers that be who run speedway have to decide in the future is do you market it as a team sport or an individual sport because you can't have both.

Think that decision has been made for some time

Very few clubs run individual meetings now 

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1 hour ago, JamesHarris said:

One thing the powers that be who run speedway have to decide in the future is do you market it as a team sport or an individual sport because you can't have both.

I don’t think this is true. The issue I find is that individual meetings are no more than half-assed fixture fillers these days, in the same way that “B” league fixtures are. 12 rider individuals need to get in the bin and the individuals that are staged need to offer something to the fans or be meaningful in some way, be it riders championships or just showcasing riders at a track who may not usually race there. 

The sport cannot sustain being individual meetings only but there is a place for individual, pairs, fours meetings etc. alongside the team meetings.

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3 hours ago, Ben91 said:

I don’t think this is true. The issue I find is that individual meetings are no more than half-assed fixture fillers these days, in the same way that “B” league fixtures are. 12 rider individuals need to get in the bin and the individuals that are staged need to offer something to the fans or be meaningful in some way, be it riders championships or just showcasing riders at a track who may not usually race there. 

The sport cannot sustain being individual meetings only but there is a place for individual, pairs, fours meetings etc. alongside the team meetings.

12 rider individuals is pathetic and I have cursed every promoter whoever has done this, always flatly refusing to support such a meeting like many others and then they the promoters wonder why the fans won’t come to anything but league meetings.

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On 8/8/2020 at 9:57 PM, Ben91 said:

Very interesting to see the replies are all in a similar ball park with regards to when things started to go wrong. It’s safe to say that we’ve been in a decline for almost 30 years then. That’s almost a third of the time Speedway has existed. 

I’ve always seen the World Cup as being a bit crap personally. Perhaps because we have never looked remotely like winning it while I’ve been a fan. It is interesting to note what Mike says above about us losing publicity when we stopped being a force internationally however. Has the ship sailed too far for us to ever become a force again unless by some minor miracle two or three exceptionally talented Brits come along and grace the same generation.

It can’t be a coincidence that our best two riders (Woffinden and Lambert) currently cut their teeth in Australia and Germany respectively. Our representative in the GP challenge, Adam Ellis, did likewise in France I believe? 

It appears that we are beginning to show some promise with a few younger riders. But is that because they are better than what we’ve churned out before or is it because Denmark, Sweden and Australia aren’t turning out riders of the same standard they used to? Poland could have the monopoly on the sport completely soon enough. That could lead to the sport dying in a lot of other nations and then they’d be shooting themselves in the foot. 

Adams speedway teeth were cut on the uk. He’d done grasstrack in France and a few practice speedway meetings but his first “real” speedway was the British youth championships at Eastbourne and Scunthhorpe.  

It’s a pain that young UK riders struggle for kit but clubs seem to find sponsors for several brand new engines for the latest foreign “superstar”... even these days 

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12 hours ago, Ben91 said:

I don’t think this is true. The issue I find is that individual meetings are no more than half-assed fixture fillers these days, in the same way that “B” league fixtures are. 12 rider individuals need to get in the bin and the individuals that are staged need to offer something to the fans or be meaningful in some way, be it riders championships or just showcasing riders at a track who may not usually race there. 

The sport cannot sustain being individual meetings only but there is a place for individual, pairs, fours meetings etc. alongside the team meetings.

I maybe the exception but I always used to love travelling around the country to see some of the big "Prestige" individual events... The Pride of the East, Barum Trophy, Golden Hammer, Brandonapolis, Coalite Classic, Olympique, Golden Gauntlets, Blue Riband and probably others... never made it to Ippo for a 16 Lapper or Star of Anglia, it's just too bloody far away

Some of these were still being held until the late 90's/early 00's. I think the problem started around that time when riders would pull out, often at short notice, the BLRC is a prime example, where for whatever reason riders took the p1ss.

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1 hour ago, iainb said:

I maybe the exception but I always used to love travelling around the country to see some of the big "Prestige" individual events... The Pride of the East, Barum Trophy, Golden Hammer, Brandonapolis, Coalite Classic, Olympique, Golden Gauntlets, Blue Riband and probably others... never made it to Ippo for a 16 Lapper or Star of Anglia, it's just too bloody far away

Some of these were still being held until the late 90's/early 00's. I think the problem started around that time when riders would pull out, often at short notice, the BLRC is a prime example, where for whatever reason riders took the p1ss.

At Rye we had a decent Ace of Herts until 2004. Len usually used it to look at prospective signings for the following season and as a send off for the seven Rockets from that campaign. 2004’s was won by Stuart Robson and featured Danny King and Edward Kennett, all of whom has only raced in the Elite League that season so they were draws in a sense. All three ended up signing for us in 2005 when we won the Premier League too.

Due to that successful 2005 campaign the Ace of Herts didn’t happen and I have a feeling that from 2006 onwards it went to being a 12 rider meeting. One year Andrew Silver was part of that 12 rider field and it seemed a bit of a publicity stunt, then he went and signed for us the following season and did really well for a year. That’s a tangent though! 

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1 hour ago, iainb said:

I maybe the exception but I always used to love travelling around the country to see some of the big "Prestige" individual events... The Pride of the East, Barum Trophy, Golden Hammer, Brandonapolis, Coalite Classic, Olympique, Golden Gauntlets, Blue Riband and probably others... never made it to Ippo for a 16 Lapper or Star of Anglia, it's just too bloody far away

Some of these were still being held until the late 90's/early 00's. I think the problem started around that time when riders would pull out, often at short notice, the BLRC is a prime example, where for whatever reason riders took the p1ss.

The rot started in the early 1980's, when the likes of Mauger and Olsen started to miss big meetings over here, in favour of some lucrative overseas bookings.

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Been to every track and for professionalism and slick presentation and putting on a good night i.o.w are right up there in the top 3 , actually could well be number 1

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22 minutes ago, bruno said:

Been to every track and for professionalism and slick presentation and putting on a good night i.o.w are right up there in the top 3 , actually could well be number 1

I'd certainly pay it a visit if ever on holiday on the Island.

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It's great that the IOW presentation is good and that is a massive part of Speedway revival.  Is the presentation objectively good or just good for Speedway?  Are track staff smart? Are they polite? Are there weeds growing around the stadium?, is it tidy? Is it signposted?  Is the PA system good and is the parade good with a good introduction of the riders who are looking smart and engaged?

After presentation comes racing and I have attended probably 10 third tier meetings which have been generally poor.  As a speedway lover, any speedway is better than no speedway but to the newcomer, the very spread out races with some riders barely able to get the bike around the corner is not a sport, it's a hobby.

I think there are lessons from old Speedway (post war) that can be learned in that Speedway took itself very seriously and looked as though it respected itself.

As the crowd numbers dropped in the 70's the sport got scruffier and scruffier and looked as though it was a hobby for petrolheads.

On this thread we have had discussion of sidecar speedway being included in the meetings well sidecars are not the same sport and may provide amusement to people who are waiting for the team meeting to continue but Football doesn't rely on having a cricket match at half time!

I honestly think the racing in teams aspect is speedway's biggest hope.  As sport becomes more and more global, team identity is everything and motorcycle racing in teams could be massive, unfortunately Speedway cannot be trusted to take that opportunity

Edited by HackneyHawk

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1 hour ago, HackneyHawk said:

It's great that the IOW presentation is good and that is a massive part of Speedway revival.  Is the presentation objectively good or just good for Speedway?  Are track staff smart? Are they polite? Are there weeds growing around the stadium?, is it tidy? Is it signposted?  Is the PA system good and is the parade good with a good introduction of the riders who are looking smart and engaged?

After presentation comes racing and I have attended probably 10 third tier meetings which have been generally poor.  As a speedway lover, any speedway is better than no speedway but to the newcomer, the very spread out races with some riders barely able to get the bike around the corner is not a sport, it's a hobby.

I think there are lessons from old Speedway (post war) that can be learned in that Speedway took itself very seriously and looked as though it respected itself.

As the crowd numbers dropped in the 70's the sport got scruffier and scruffier and looked as though it was a hobby for petrolheads.

On this thread we have had discussion of sidecar speedway being included in the meetings well sidecars are not the same sport and may provide amusement to people who are waiting for the team meeting to continue but Football doesn't rely on having a cricket match at half time!

I honestly think the racing in teams aspect is speedway's biggest hope.  As sport becomes more and more global, team identity is everything and motorcycle racing in teams could be massive, unfortunately Speedway cannot be trusted to take that opportunity

Regards your first paragraph... you should really read some reviews or attend it.... our presentation is good for speedway and is objectively good. Track Staff are smart - all dressed the same thanks to our sponsors Sydenhams. Are they polite.... read ANYWHERE about the welcome people are given on the Island and you will read just how polite, welcoming, helpful, engaging, interpersonal all our staff are - you see we view every person as equally as important as the next... who do you view the most important person on race day...? Actually for me there are 2 The carpark team (our carpark is free so they are purely there to welcome and direct) and then the team on the gate... why because they are the first people anyone who comes meets... if they are smart, polite, trained, and knowledgable its the right start... then also its what a visitor takes away with them... the thrill of the last heat, great food at the right price, seeing the kids on the track in the running race or our riders signing tareoffs to give away at halftime... is it their visit to the pits, the drink in the bar, our clean toilets or using our baby changing facility, maybe it was the visit to the centre green, or the old boys on the JAPs after the meeting, could be our brilliant programme, or the videos on the TVs in the stand... could be me interviewing as I go live before the meeting starts..or it could be the tractors grading or just perhaps they have really enjoyed their night with us...

Sorry I got carried away.. to continue... is it tidy? Oh my we have probably the most beautiful stadium before race day, after race day and any day... it is always clean.. ask anyone who has been every air fence panel (all of which are sponsored by the way) are cleaned for every one of the 20 weekly meetings we stage, the grass is alway on point, our toilets are clean, with flowers most weeks, and painted every off season, our stands are clean, our bins are emptied, our weeds are... oh we dont have weeds in the stands of course, or that main spectator area, or the picnic area, or the pits.. but there are a few where no one goes on race day until they are outgrown by blackberries which we encourage fans to come and pick (wash before you eat them), are we sign posted? Yes we are and we have banners across the island, pop ups in cinemas, and other attractions, can we improve this bit.. of course we can. Is the PA system good.. ,we have a great PA, a two mic presentation (fixed and mobile) but it wasnt always perfect but as soon as it was reported guess what ... it was fixed. Is the parade good... OK our meetings go like this... firstly our MASCOTs are introduced to the crowd..normally 13 every week they go off into the crowd (signing autographs and inspiring others).. then the riders decend through the crowd high fiving the kids on to the track.. the brilliant Rob Dyer introduces them one by one, giving an overview of any recent news about the rider (he knows his stuff) and when the final rider has been introduced do we allow riders to go off... although if we have our second team the Wizards in the main event we have them on parade too to be introduced in front of the crowd... so yep I think its good but we always look to improve. 

I guess we always try to be different, we know we will be copied, we know we must innovate to maintain our sponsors, we know we have to work hard but the most interesting thing is we are all a team... I am the promoter, toilet cleaner, tractor driver, drain cleaner, painter, joker, receptionist, car part attendant, burger flipper, drink supplier, raker, trainer, confident, accountant, marketing manager, My First Skid coordinator, track watering specialist, roving mic, sponsorship coordinator and anyone of our volunteers could be exactly the same.. they are all equal and all so very important to us.. I think the only difference is that they look to Martin and I for leadership and direction...

Our reputation is pretty much known outside the UK too... we staged the first ever NICE meeting - now when I was in Poland I could have lied and said we had gates of 2000, we were loaded we had every possible machine.. but I didnt I told the truth.... when the Poles arrived the night before (from Bydgoszcz) to look at the stadium, I was watering the track - by a hose pipe..... at first they thought I was crazy...then they helped me.... look at the feedback of the riders, fans, NICE management of how we presented the NICE Challenge... no one has done better, no one.

As for racing I just dont believe the racing is better... it may be faster but it never better... I dont care if the track record gets broken... what I believe fans want is action, passes, elbows, characters, appreciation from riders, interaction.... not flat out first bend new track record..... we are maybe lucky in that most of our meetings are last 3 heats deciders... and this of course adds to the tension and suspence.... but ask anyone who travels all over and watches all three leagues the entertainment value of the 3rd tier is by far the better... Now i am not saying there are processional races or thrashings of a side... but this is in every league...

By the way I really enjoy this type of thread and I learn from it...normally I read more than I comment but for sure we are super proud of our product.

 

Edited by barrybishop
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17 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

we are supper proud of our product.

 

pride in the product is what seems to be seriously lacking across the leagues

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41 minutes ago, stevehone said:

pride in the product is what seems to be seriously lacking across the leagues

Ain't that the truth... To be honest, I noticed that at a number of places as far back as the 1980's.

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