BL65 656 Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, BOBBATH said: Just going back a bit further- I reckon Ove Fundin would have dominated in the fifties and sixties under a GP system- how do you reckon he would have stacked up re Moore, Briggo and Craven under such a system. Do you in fact think those three could ever have topped Ove as World Champ under GP- think Ove tended to be the most consistent over a whole season . I do think however that its unfortunate that its possible to become World Champ under GP without winning a single GP meeting (e.g. Mark Loram). Ronnie Moore won the world title in 1959 with a 15 point maximum. Barry Briggs only competed in the final and three other individual events on British tracks that season, scoring 38 points at an average of 9.5 out of 15 per meeting. Ronnie competed in 19 events, winning three and scoring 206 points at an average of 10.84. Peter Craven won 9 out of 21 meetings, scoring 275 points at an average of 13.10. He couldn't match Ove Fundin, who was first or first equal in 10 out of 16 meetings, scoring 223 points at an average of 13.94. This could have been better but for an exclusion in one meeting where he won his other 4 races. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,090 Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, steve roberts said: Personally I think that Briggo and Fundin would have dominated with Peter Craven as a spoiler...but could one discount Ronnie Moore? I don't think you could discount Knutson or Plechanov in the sixties... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,243 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, chunky said: I don't think you could discount Knutson or Plechanov in the sixties... Again two riders I wished I had the opportunity of seeing ride! Sverre Harrfeldt was another. There was a rumour that he was to join Oxford in 1974 but it never materialised. Edited August 12, 2020 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grand Central 2,654 Posted August 12, 2020 If the 1973 championship had been held in a similar fashion to that being implemented for 2020 then good old Jerzy Sczazakiel could have shown that he too could win over a grand prix format. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,243 Posted August 12, 2020 29 minutes ago, Grand Central said: If the 1973 championship had been held in a similar fashion to that being implemented for 2020 then good old Jerzy Sczazakiel could have shown that he too could win over a grand prix format. I actually saw Jerzy ride...well as far as the first bend at Cowley when he got caught up under the fence and that was the last we saw of him. Unbeknown to us we were witnessing the future World Champion when he lifted the crown later that very same season! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grand Central 2,654 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, steve roberts said: I actually saw Jerzy ride...well as far as the first bend at Cowley when he got caught up under the fence and that was the last we saw of him. Unbeknown to us we were witnessing the future World Champion when he lifted the crown later that very same season! Just about every World Champion there has ever been will have had a first bend crash at some point in their career, perhaps even in the very year in which they go on to win the title. Only Jerzy ever gets lampooned for doing so. Edited August 12, 2020 by Grand Central Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) I do think from 1968 / 1974, / Ivan would of dominated a series I, still think Briggs and others would of won certain other rounds though. 1984 onwards Nielsen with Gundo sniffing about Gundersen was better had his number certainly on a one off meting Hans would of loved a GP series still think Erik would of liked a series format ( ie knowing he could beat the Great Hans. Edited August 12, 2020 by Sidney the robin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wessex Wanderer 148 Posted August 12, 2020 Absolutely no way could you discount Ronnie Moore. If anything he was the most consistent of the “big five” not just meeting to meeting but race to race. Also remember he started a bit before the others so might very well have had 2-3 titles before Fundin, Craven and Briggs really got started at top world level. And he didn’t have things easy before either with the likes of Jack Young around. These discussions are always so enjoyable. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted August 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Wessex Wanderer said: Absolutely no way could you discount Ronnie Moore. If anything he was the most consistent of the “big five” not just meeting to meeting but race to race. Also remember he started a bit before the others so might very well have had 2-3 titles before Fundin, Craven and Briggs really got started at top world level. And he didn’t have things easy before either with the likes of Jack Young around. These discussions are always so enjoyable. Mirac was better than Ivan/ Barry Wessex ???? both riders admit that what a trio ???? take your pick who would you pick Wessex hand on heart hard choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,243 Posted August 12, 2020 56 minutes ago, Grand Central said: Just about every World Champion there has ever been will have had a first bend crash at some point in their career, perhaps even in the very year in which they go on to win the title. Only Jerzy ever gets lampooned for doing so. More than likely...but having seen him at Cowley that same year (riding as a reserve if I recall) it came as a shock when I heard the result given out over the radio that September afternoon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, steve roberts said: More than likely...but having seen him at Cowley that same year (riding as a reserve if I recall) it came as a shock when I heard the result given out over the radio that September afternoon. All in hindsight now Steve but Hans against Erik now in combat would be awesome .Two great champions going against each other both at the peak of there powers but it was spoiled by Erik's dreadful injury both LEGEND riders. After a number of years got to realise just how good Nielsen was doubted it myself hold my hands up but his brilliance over a period persuaded me. Edited August 12, 2020 by Sidney the robin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,243 Posted August 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: All in hindsight now Steve but Hans against Erik now in combat would be awesome .Two great champions going against each other both at the peak of there powers but it was spoiled by Erik's dreadful injury both LEGEND riders. After a number of years got to realise just how good Nielsen was doubted it myself hold my hands up but his brilliance over a period persuaded me. I saw many classic encounters involving them both over the years Sid...both at Oxford & Cradley Heath as well as on the World Stage. Great competitors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,243 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Wessex Wanderer said: Absolutely no way could you discount Ronnie Moore. If anything he was the most consistent of the “big five” not just meeting to meeting but race to race. Also remember he started a bit before the others so might very well have had 2-3 titles before Fundin, Craven and Briggs really got started at top world level. And he didn’t have things easy before either with the likes of Jack Young around. These discussions are always so enjoyable. I'm pleased I saw Ronnie ride during his last full season in the UK. A sublime 14 points at Poole. Out of the three I'm only repeating what others have said (Briggo amongst them) in that Ronnie was the most talented. Imagine if he had ridden throughout the sixties what he may achieved and then to come back and still be a force? Edited August 12, 2020 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wessex Wanderer 148 Posted August 12, 2020 36 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Mirac was better than Ivan/ Barry Wessex ???? both riders admit that what a trio ???? take your pick who would you pick Wessex hand on heart hard choice. No. Not saying that just saying you cannot discount him. Particularly when comparing him to Ivan you have to take into account that Ronnie had been a top world class rider for some 15-16 years before Ian won his first World Final. For me the best three ever riders have been Fundin, Mauger and Rickardsson. But Ronnie absolutely deserves his place among the legends. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Wessex Wanderer said: No. Not saying that just saying you cannot discount him. Particularly when comparing him to Ivan you have to take into account that Ronnie had been a top world class rider for some 15-16 years before Ian won his first World Final. For me the best three ever riders have been Fundin, Mauger and Rickardsson. But Ronnie absolutely deserves his place among the legends. Great choice different eras Wessex i don't agree but hey I respect your viewpoint bigtime and loads would agree with you to.!!!! Edited August 12, 2020 by Sidney the robin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
