Wroclaw GP`s 1 and 2 Friday and Saturday 28th and 29th August

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

9 hours ago, Tim G said:

You may not get the crowds that you think you will if you hold 2 rounds at a track on consecutive days. 

I have been going to the Arenacross for a few years and it used to be one night in six different uk arenas on a Saturday night which were all near full capacity and the atmosphere was very good. They then switched it to six rounds in three arenas running on a Friday and Saturday night. Now the arenas are less than half full with spectators and the event is nowhere near as enjoyable as it once was as it has a flat atmosphere.

 If you had a Cardiff GP on a Friday you would be lucky to get 15k and the Saturday crowd would probably be lower than it normally is. I expect most people that go to Cardiff do a 200 mile plus round trip and wouldn’t do that two days running.

PLUS the cost of an overnight stay ... works in Poland because each SGP there is drawing its crowd from the fan base already in the respective city. A two day event in Warsaw probably wouldn't work either.

[fatface 2,554]

11 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

It does make an awful lot of sense.

I never understood all the negativity over the two-day 1987 World Final. It was the first time we'd travelled abroad for a final and loved that it was over two days rather than one, and we got to see 40 races instead of 20.

Yes, I must say that in the one-off era though, I didn't think the two day worked well at all. And yes, I was at that final too. Saturday night crackled along (although was still no barnstormer) and Sunday felt very flat with nothing to race for for half the field.

I guess we'll have two perspectives on it anyway. I assume you were cheering Hans Nielsen to the title? I was cheering Chris Morton and Sunday was a dead duck. It might have been different if the the lower half of the field had something to ride for....like automatic qualification to the following year's final perhaps? But, that wouldn't have been in the spirit of the one-off either. 

By the way, I watched that final again on YouTube recently and was pleasantly surprised that some of the racing was quite decent. Also, Nielsen was a real cut above everyone else.

[iainb 5,005]

12 hours ago, falcace said:

Great racing - tick

Flawed scoring - tick

But the other takeaway from this weekend is having GPs back to back on Friday and Saturday nights makes perfect sense going forward.

In terms of practically, financially and competitively. We all know it's a costly job and a half putting these events on, particularly for the one-off tracks. So, why not just do it twice over the weekend from 2021 onwards - offering better value for the punter, spreading costs thinner for the organisers, even greater exposure for sponsors, double the content for media? Have a small practice on a Friday morning and crack on into the racing for Friday night.

From a riders perspective, it gives ample chance for everyone to get something out of the weekend. Any rider struggling with set up on Friday, has a chance to come back wiser on Saturday and potentially, an even more competitive meeting. From a punter's perspective too, you could get a "double discount" for both nights and I think most would go for it.

Every GP I've been to - Cardiff, Prague, Daugvapils, Lonigo, Torun Krsko, Bydgoszcz - has consisted of a very enjoyable Friday night p** up looking forward to the next night. But would I rather have been sniffing the fumes and seeing 23 races? Damn right! 

Makes sense for attending fans, not so sure for the non-attending fans and riders though, 3 of the 4 finalists at Wroclaw were the same on both nights

10 hours ago, Grachan said:

I think the main problem with it was that it was in Amsterdam in a three-quarters empty stadium.

or a quarter full 

[fatface 2,554]

9 hours ago, Tim G said:

You may not get the crowds that you think you will if you hold 2 rounds at a track on consecutive days. 

I have been going to the Arenacross for a few years and it used to be one night in six different uk arenas on a Saturday night which were all near full capacity and the atmosphere was very good. They then switched it to six rounds in three arenas running on a Friday and Saturday night. Now the arenas are less than half full with spectators and the event is nowhere near as enjoyable as it once was as it has a flat atmosphere.

 If you had a Cardiff GP on a Friday you would be lucky to get 15k and the Saturday crowd would probably be lower than it normally is. I expect most people that go to Cardiff do a 200 mile plus round trip and wouldn’t do that two days running.

That's an interesting point and a valid example you raise.

The devil is in the detail of this and it would require deeper market research than our musings. My suspicion is that the Arenacross crowd is more of a casual motorsports/entertainment crowd and the speedway crowd are much more committed fans of the sport. So, would the speedway fans be interested in the back to back option unlike the more transient Arenacross crowd? I suspect so, but like you, I don't know. That's where the market research is required. 

Again, only my suspicions, but I think the majority of Speedway GP goers make a weekend of it. One final point, I think's it's a mistake to make assumptions that speedway fans are similar to other motorsports fans. I think there is quite a distinction, with a lot of speedway fans (I'd suggest the majority) having little or no interest in other motorsport, so findings from wider motorsport are not always applicable to speedway.

So, I think you are right that back to back GPs shouldn't be implemented blindly from 2021, but nor should the idea be dismissed. Worth looking into though  

Edited August 31, 2020 by falcace

[fatface 2,554]

40 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

PLUS the cost of an overnight stay ... works in Poland because each SGP there is drawing its crowd from the fan base already in the respective city. A two day event in Warsaw probably wouldn't work either.

Hmm...but doesn't a quickly sold-out stadium suggest there is a bigger market out there? 

[Grachan 7,362]

22 minutes ago, iainb said:

 

or a quarter full 

I guess I'm just a three-quarters empty kind of guy.

[Grachan 7,362]

17 minutes ago, falcace said:

That's an interesting point and a valid example you raise.

The devil is in the detail of this and it would require deeper market research than our musings. My suspicion is that the Arenacross crowd is more of a casual motorsports/entertainment crowd and the speedway crowd are much more committed fans of the sport. So, would the speedway fans be interested in the back to back option unlike the more transient Arenacross crowd? I suspect so, but like you, I don't know. That's where the market research is required. 

Again, only my suspicions, but I think the majority of Speedway GP goers make a weekend of it. One final point, I think's it's a mistake to make assumptions that speedway fans are similar to other motorsports fans. I think there is quite a distinction, with a lot of speedway fans (I'd suggest the majority) having little or no interest in other motorsport, so findings from wider motorsport are not always applicable to speedway.

So, I think you are right that back to back GPs shouldn't be implemented blindly from 2021, but nor should the idea be dismissed. Worth looking into though  

The stadium looked less than half-full on Friday, which was the maximum capacity. Was the selling option, perhaps, one ticket for both nights and a lot of people bought a two-night ticket even though they were only going on Saturday?

[Daniel Smith 5,659]

Those calling for the double headers to continue when the crowds hopefully return, just imagine the hotel costs for Cardiff weekend?? 

Yep, the moaning would proper kick off. 

[Mark 1,497]

57 minutes ago, Grachan said:

The stadium looked less than half-full on Friday, which was the maximum capacity. Was the selling option, perhaps, one ticket for both nights and a lot of people bought a two-night ticket even though they were only going on Saturday?

Tickets were sold individually.  Not as with the SON.

[fatface 2,554]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

Those calling for the double headers to continue when the crowds hopefully return, just imagine the hotel costs for Cardiff weekend?? 

Yep, the moaning would proper kick off. 

 I think it's beyond all of us to prevent moaning.

I can only speak for myself and I stay for two nights at the (very reasonable) Uni Campus. Others fork out for two nights at somewhere swisher, some for a simple B&B, some AirBNB, others on the outskirts, some in and out for the day. I am not quite clear on why the costs (admittedly steep in some cases) would increase if there were two GPs anyway? In my experience of B&Bs, you have to book two nights anyway over the GP weekend to get a bed. So, it makes little difference to the B&B owner anyway.

Or if you did want to stay for one night and see both GPs, then find somewhere that will do that, stay over Friday and head off post-GP on Saturday. Or if you wanted juts to see one GP on Friday or Saturday and begrudged any accommodation fees, then don't stay. Choices aplenty for everyone. It's a free country.

Ticket-wise for the GP, I'd suggest full price for one night and 33% off if you booked both GPs. I suspect Cardiff would be the more challenging sell, but for the sell-outs in Poland, looking from the outside, on paper it makes sense.  Again, as above, needs a proper bit of research though.

Edited August 31, 2020 by falcace

[racers and royals 8,723]

Lets not forget that the Friday/ Saturday`s  are only able to run this year due to the Extraleague`s co-operation in moving some Friday night meetings. Not sure that in 2021 they would think the same 

[topaz325 1,855]

51 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Those calling for the double headers to continue when the crowds hopefully return, just imagine the hotel costs for Cardiff weekend?? 

Yep, the moaning would proper kick off. 

Always stay Friday and Saturday night , £400 for two nights .

Agree some will travel in for the day or one night stopover .

[Mark 1,497]

6 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

PLUS the cost of an overnight stay ... works in Poland because each SGP there is drawing its crowd from the fan base already in the respective city. A two day event in Warsaw probably wouldn't work either.

Maybe 2 GPs in towns that are close would work for riders and crowd.  It doesn't have to be every weekend is a 2 x GP weekend.   Mix it up.

Bydgoszcz/Torun  is an obvious one but those with a Polish or European map will know more.

[iainb 5,005]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

Maybe 2 GPs in towns that are close would work for riders and crowd.  It doesn't have to be every weekend is a 2 x GP weekend.   Mix it up.

Bydgoszcz/Torun  is an obvious one but those with a Polish or European map will know more.

I thought that... then I thought of the logistics needed to deconstruct the setup at one venue, transport it and set it up at the next venue, easy for the fans, not so much for the organisers

[Gambo 1,340]

5 hours ago, topaz325 said:

Always stay Friday and Saturday night , £400 for two nights .

Agree some will travel in for the day or one night stopover .

Likewise, but staying at the University. £57.60 for two nights!