Wroclaw GP`s 1 and 2 Friday and Saturday 28th and 29th August

[Grand Central 2,654]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

NOT singling Havvy out, just an example of why so many World Finals were never actually decided in the final race of the night. 

But throughout the whole history of Speedway , particularly since WW2, only a handful of championship events, were specifically crafted to ensure that happened.

Some happened by natural accident of course with run off where needed plus the Mickey Mouse events like Rider of the night finals where the money was split and the  race was a sham to con the public.

All the rest were just won by the team/rider scoring most points regardless of which heat the final winning score came in. 

Using any one person as if it were a peculiar aberration of the sport was your choice.

BUT I am not an advocate of removing finals from GPs. .. far from it ... I love them.

The GP scoring was perfect last year. And it is so definitely NOT this year.

EVERY POINT COUNTS IN EVERY RACE was a massive plus point. Not just for PR but because it really followed through on to the track and to the racing, especially in that final block of races before the semis. And it has been tossed away...  by tossers.

I don't think it helps to talk about Gary Havelock as if he is part of the current problem. That is just diversionary. The names that should be tarred and feathered over this are Viegas, Castagna and Bellamy. 

The rest of the month is going to be dominated by this discussion at every GP when, if the action is as fantastic as last night, that is a travesty. And THEY are to blame.

Let's stick to naming and shaming those people.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Grand Central

[Bavarian 766]

2 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I'm not that bothered about the scoring system. It's the same for all of them so don't really get the horror reactions. Fair play to Lindgren, he did it perfectly. We're others who'd qualified testing things in their last rides? Didn't some of them settle for places as they knew it was enough? So what, the big race was where it all counted. Call the heats the 'qualifying' if you like. 

yes some took it easy in their last heat races, Emil für example did not take any unneccessary risks when running a last as he had already qualified for the semis.

The new scoring system makes it all a bit more like a lottery to win or lose the big points at the end. It somehow reminds me of the "Joker" in the SWC, which I didn't like either. 

[geoff100 1,426]

Can someone tell the tv director we dont want to watch the 1st corner from the sky 

[szkocjasid 3,017]

Regarding the new scoring system 

1) Doyle, Dudek & Michelsen all scored 5 points but Doyle is awarded 6 points & Michelsen 4, what is the purpose of that?

2) Sayfutdinov scored 11 points & Zagar 6, but Emil only gets awarded one more point! Does Emil only deserve ONE more point than Matej? Also it means if Emil had scored FOUR less points in the heats he still would have gone home with his 9 GP points!

[Najjer 2,888]

I’ve said it before, the best scoring system was the old system where everybody scores count towards your final total. The only difference should of been results should of been changed to 4,3,2,1 points in the semis and finals to reward people for getting there even if they finished last.

[BluTiger 21,689]

The new scoring system is a complete abortion imo ...

[Grachan 7,360]

17 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

Can someone tell the tv director we dont want to watch the 1st corner from the sky 

And, while they are at it, we don't want to watch the start from behind either.

[racers and royals 8,720]

12 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

Regarding the new scoring system 

1) Doyle, Dudek & Michelsen all scored 5 points but Doyle is awarded 6 points & Michelsen 4, what is the purpose of that?

2) Sayfutdinov scored 11 points & Zagar 6, but Emil only gets awarded one more point! Does Emil only deserve ONE more point than Matej? Also it means if Emil had scored FOUR less points in the heats he still would have gone home with his 9 GP points!

Emil got 10 points and Zagar 8 - so that`s 2 points difference. It is apparent that points scored in the heats do matter certainly( apart from the 4 finalist`s.)

Edited August 29, 2020 by racers and royals

[iainb 4,994]

14 hours ago, Shockster said:

Not a great point system but still need the points for gate positions in the semis and final.

What seems to have escaped everybody's attention is the quali system for the semis? Can anybody explain it to me?

Semi 1: 1st, 5th, 6th, 7th

Semi 2: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th

So for the 4 losing semi finalists

Semi 1: 3rd = 11pts, 4th = 10pts

Semi 2: 3rd = 12pts, 4th = 9pts

Confused!?!

14 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Laguta tonight reminds me of the best speedway rider of all time. The Great Tony R.

He'll probably remind you of KK tonight though 

22 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

Can someone tell the tv director we dont want to watch the 1st corner from the sky 

Made me feel sick that did... also, and it's a real bug bear of mine and has been the same for ever... when you're actually at a Speedway meeting, remember those days, after a rider won an event or race, did you fix your gaze on the guy waving the flag? No? Perhaps you started looking around the crowd for somebody that was waving a flag of the nation of the victor? No? Maybe you stopped looking at what was going on in a rush to fill your programme in? No? Maybe just maybe you were looking at what was going on, on the track!!! Arrrrggghhh!

 

A great GP last night after all of the dross served up so far in the Ekstraliga and great to have 2 commentators who inject some excitement and enthusiasm into proceedings, Didn't think the crowd was anywhere near 50% capacity and one thing I thought was noticeable by their absence were the start girls, was this down to pc reasons?

Edited August 29, 2020 by iainb

[Grachan 7,360]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

I'm well up for innovation and evolution. Change is healthy. But this particular change is just change for change's sake. And it's a change that could easily devalue the product...

As opposed to the previous format (which after years of GP tinkering, was the fairest) every race mattered. If say Zmarzlik and Woffinden are going to head to head at the top of the standings, then the heat they clash is a two (or more) pointer. It matters. But if it's just a qualifier towards the semis, they are much less incentivized to race it cut throat and - if they miss the start - settle for safe second or third.  In the scheme of things, it matters less and is - potentially - irrelevant.

Worse still, the new format opens up a greater chance of race fixing. Let's say Woffinden has sailed through his first four heats and has 12 points and is safe as a leading qualifier for the semis going into the last round of heats. Zmarzlik has finished on 8 points is sweating on a place in the semis. Woffinden lines up against three others on 6 or 7 points (non title rivals) in his last heat. I'm sure you can see what I am driving at......

Without every point mattering, Woffinden would actually have less to gain winning his heat than trailing in last and scuppering Zmarzlik's chances.

I just don't think it has been properly thought through and discussed. I get why the FIM - from a distance - might like standardisation, but the onus is on the GP organisers to map out these scenarios and show why it is isn't possible to drive a square peg into a round hole.  

A valid point regarding the race fixing, but the old points scoring was always open to the same thing in World Championship qualifiers. Penhall in 82 being a prime example.

There is a lot of talk from people complaining that the heats are just qualifiers, but, in the days of one off finals, entire meetings were qualifiers. Nobody complained then.

Also, in old World finals, you had 5 scoring heats to decide the winner. Here, you have 8 finals.

I liked the old system better, but to me this isn't as bad as people are saying.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Grachan

[SPEEDY69 1,253]

Whine whine whine, it's so unfair..... It's how they're doing it, live with it and enjoy the drama. 

[Grand Central 2,654]

1 minute ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Whine whine whine, it's so unfair..... It's how they're doing it, live with it and enjoy the drama. 

I don't think anyone HAS said it is UNFAIR.

A poor change that detracts from the product. Yes.

Don't worry, you'll be able to whine in 2021 when it's changed back.

[iainb 4,994]

4 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Whine whine whine, it's so unfair..... It's how they're doing it, live with it and enjoy the drama. 

I'll enjoy the racing, as I always have, and live with it as it ain't gonna change anytime soon, you got to admit it does open the sport up to ridicule when put under scrutiny though.

[iainb 4,994]

1 minute ago, Grand Central said:

I don't think anyone HAS said it is UNFAIR.

I'll say it's unfair... how can the 3rd and 4th of each semi get different points? Nothing fair about that

[Grachan 7,360]

41 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

EVERY POINT COUNTS IN EVERY RACE was a massive plus point. Not just for PR but because it really followed through on to the track and to the racing, especially in that final block of races before the semis. And it has been tossed away...  by tossers.

 

How has that changed? The final block of races are just as significant to the semis now as they were last year.

The main problem last night was that 7 riders were streets ahead of the others so most of the qualifiers were obvious after 4 races apiece.