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Torun GP 2nd - 3rd October

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On 10/4/2020 at 5:18 PM, OveFundinFan said:

Top 6 has only been done one year, hardly a fair test. What if no 7 and 8 had been rubbish this year, you would be stuck with them. Top 6 gives loads of flexibility if needed, why tie your hands so no movement. 
Pearson doesnt always say what he is thinking, you should have known at the start of Torun last night what the situation was, and then follow through who may or may not get in the semis, and once the semis were going on you can work out who is in with a chance.                                
I thought it was close and exciting all night, was Zmarzlik going to get in the semis, if he didn’t it would have been wide open. Then would he get to the final seeing as he was on gate 4 in the semi. Woffinden going out in the final, Zmarzlik getting in, then Freddy only needed top 3 in the final to be 2nd in the world, drama at the start with Freddie’s bike giving up.   If you didn’t find all that exciting then I am lost for words. 

As  has previously been posted if you finish 7th or 8th in an 8 round GP series you are a top rider and deserving of your place. For all the call for fresh faces there are simply not many riders out there who are significantly better than those in the whole field and definitely not better than the top 8. I take it your a fan of the new scoring system, fine but I think you are in a minority. The crux of the series is to find a deserving World Champion, not to fudge it so that it always comes down to the last race of the season. Maybe we should award double points in the last round to give all the top six a crack at being champion on the last round . Sorry forget I ever said that. I fully understand how the system works but prefer the World Championship table to evolve throughout the meeting , not have to wait until heat 20 before it takes shape. Each to their own I suppose.

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Lovers of the new points system, think on.
Had BZ slipped up on Saturday and just missed out on the semis, Tai or Freddie could well have gone on to be WC.
However, BZ would still have been the top race points scorer and would still have had the highest race average, by far. 
Can you imagine the outcry there would have been, not least from the Poles, about such an outcome.

The new points system would already, by now, be an historic experiment.

Edited by False dawn
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Love the new point system, should've always been this way.

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4 minutes ago, ozzie said:

Love the new point system, should've always been this way.

I guess this is a binary opinion. I would say exactly the same about last year's point system.

But we're civilised folks, aren't we? We'll agree to disagree :cheers:

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3 hours ago, False dawn said:

I guess this is a binary opinion. I would say exactly the same about last year's point system.

But we're civilised folks, aren't we? We'll agree to disagree :cheers:

You're right, but unfortunately there's a few that get aggressive if others don't agree with them!

There are merits on both sides but regarding your point as to if BZ had slipped up and missed the semis, could it not be argued that if that had happened it was because the pressure had got to him and he bottled his last ride, in which case would he be a worthy champion?

I didn't like seeing riders looking dominant in the heats then go missing in the semis or final but come away with the spoils.

As it was BZ showed he was the best rider in the series and won it in the style of a true champion.

I like the new system too but as you say we can agree to disagree.

 

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Think there has to be system where you get a few extra for reaching a semi final and possibly a few more extra for making The Final.This years points is perhaps a little to extreme  IMO.Although the Top men still figured .Roll on next year ,they done well to get a Series this yearIMO.

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1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

Roll on next year ,they done well to get a Series this yearIMO.

A few on here would do well to remember that...

Overall, there were a couple of cracking meetings, and a couple of good ones, plus perhaps the best race of all time (Heat 2 on Saturday), and plenty of other fantastic ones, and the championship not being decided until three heats from the end of the series.

I think that is pretty good, myself. Given the circumstances, it was great!

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17 hours ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

You're right, but unfortunately there's a few that get aggressive if others don't agree with them!

There are merits on both sides but regarding your point as to if BZ had slipped up and missed the semis, could it not be argued that if that had happened it was because the pressure had got to him and he bottled his last ride, in which case would he be a worthy champion?

I didn't like seeing riders looking dominant in the heats then go missing in the semis or final but come away with the spoils.

As it was BZ showed he was the best rider in the series and won it in the style of a true champion.

I like the new system too but as you say we can agree to disagree.

 

SGP dodged 2 bullets on Saturday night, if Bartek hadn't made the final he could have been 14 race points clear at the top of the table and not been World Champion and it could have all gone back to count back and delays to work out who was World Champ. And not because he "went missing" in the semis, could have touched the tapes, had an engine failure etc. Look at Janowski, his title challenge was effectively over when he touched the tapes in heat 20 of Prague 1 and didn't make the semis, old points system finishes 1 point behind Tai and Fred, new points finishes 10 points behind. There's too much jeopardy in this points system 1 bad round and you're out of it

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20 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Think there has to be system where you get a few extra for reaching a semi final and possibly a few more extra for making The Final.This years points is perhaps a little to extreme  IMO.Although the Top men still figured .Roll on next year ,they done well to get a Series this yearIMO.

I made the point before, where scoring should be 4 3 2 1 in the semi finals, to rewards the 4th placed rider for at least making the semis. In the final then points should be doubled to be 8 6 4 2. Again, rewarding the 4th placed rider for making the final but heavily rewarding the eventual winner. Similar to a few years ago where they had double points in the final. Every points scored in every heat then counts towards your total, with a maximum of 27 points on offer at each round.

I haven't bothered working it out but would be interesting to see how that would of effected this years standings.

Edited by Najjer
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5 hours ago, iainb said:

SGP dodged 2 bullets on Saturday night, if Bartek hadn't made the final he could have been 14 race points clear at the top of the table and not been World Champion and it could have all gone back to count back and delays to work out who was World Champ. And not because he "went missing" in the semis, could have touched the tapes, had an engine failure etc. Look at Janowski, his title challenge was effectively over when he touched the tapes in heat 20 of Prague 1 and didn't make the semis, old points system finishes 1 point behind Tai and Fred, new points finishes 10 points behind. There's too much jeopardy in this points system 1 bad round and you're out of it

Swings & roundabouts for me.

Championship winning race points could be earned off the back of the misfortunes of others in the ways you described in the old system. Also riders gaining points by having the favoured gates at the right time in the meeting have inflated scores too. If you top the score chart in the heats, everything is stacked in your favour for the semis & finals so if you get beat from there your not the best in my opinion. Of course you could suffer an engine failure etc. but in the old one off finals that people think we're best, one engine failure, tape exclusion or poor refereeing decision could & did cost the best rider the title, that's speedway. At least with this system a rider can bounce back from a misfortune or two outside his control and still prove he's the best. I'm not saying this system is perfect and it's not the one I'd have chosen but I prefer it to the old one as I didn't think the guy that stood on the top step at the end of the night was adequately rewarded and the finals were a bit pointless when it was simply a point totting exercise. As I said, just my opinion.

 

 

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6 hours ago, iainb said:

SGP dodged 2 bullets on Saturday night, if Bartek hadn't made the final he could have been 14 race points clear at the top of the table and not been World Champion and it could have all gone back to count back and delays to work out who was World Champ. And not because he "went missing" in the semis, could have touched the tapes, had an engine failure etc. Look at Janowski, his title challenge was effectively over when he touched the tapes in heat 20 of Prague 1 and didn't make the semis, old points system finishes 1 point behind Tai and Fred, new points finishes 10 points behind. There's too much jeopardy in this points system 1 bad round and you're out of it

I agree, this system is no good.   As the meeting goes through the 20 programed heats you knew exactly who had scored what points last year.  And every race counted.  No opportunity for testing.   Under the new system count back can matter, fans have to back track and you have to check how many points each position gets.   I am not a fan.

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As I see it every point counts in this seasons new system. The more points you get in heats 1-20 give you a better choice of gate in the semis. If you 5 ride points get you into semi1 then the better chance of first pick of gates for the final. Not much wrong with the point system this year, but there was not much wrong with the point system last year.

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What are the thoughts of track preparation during the GP series bar Prague? Do Ekstraliga meetings have any issues with prep, grading and watering compared to the nonsense SGP encounter with material, grip and riders hanging over the fence to see Phil Morris waving his arms around? Can’t help think at times if it’s the polish track crew playing silly buggers making the organising look foolish for their product.

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I thought in many cases it left a lot to be desired and wasn't based on what the track needed but more like we always water the track after 4 heats and we always put this amount of water on so this is the way it will always be. The first semi was often ruined due to over watering

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2 hours ago, iainb said:

I thought in many cases it left a lot to be desired and wasn't based on what the track needed but more like we always water the track after 4 heats and we always put this amount of water on so this is the way it will always be. The first semi was often ruined due to over watering

RACE Director has the final say ... Phil Morris nickname amongst the riders is Fireman Phil ... he does like a bit of water

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