Football 2020/21

[auntie doris 1,856]

19 minutes ago, CrystalCastles said:

In Cup competitions,  12/13 Swansea won the league cup and Wigan the FA Cup.
The last 5 seasons despite some brilliant performances and shocks, The last few years has seen more PL dominance, despite teams not fielding there strongest sides.

• Man City winning 4 League Cups, Man United 1 ,
• Arsenal winning 2, Man United, Man City, Chelsea 1 each

From a League perspective - in my lifetime we have also gone from a top 2, to the Big 4, to a Top 6, and now arguably a Top 8 (Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Tottenham).

Personally i would say any manager of a team outside of that top 8, that breaks into the top 8 in the league now has over achieved. Realistically they can finish anywhere between 9th and 20th most seasons

Finishing mid table doing as expected, finishing lower mid table or getting relegation battle quite often leads to these type of managers being branded terrible and sacked - but at the same time i don't get what they are actually expected to achieve in the PL.

 

When I was at school we had kids supporting Burnley, Leeds, Wolves, Sheff Weds, Forest, Derby..good sides then

[mikebv 7,673]

1 hour ago, Tim G said:

Sam and Warnock rarely get sacked for doing a bad job it’s just that people don’t always like the way that the team plays. Both good managers at what they do.

They invariably get teams to a level, then that teams' fans start saying "he has taken us as far as he can go", and start moaning about the football played..

They then get replaced by a manager who plays the game differently and invariably that team then doesn't do as well because all the players inherited were there specifically to play the system the previous manager wanted..

Fans of 'middle table' teams should sometimes be careful for what they wish for..

i remember Charlton fans phoning up the radio stations moaning about Curbishley and that he had been there too long and that he couldn't get them into Europe..

Deluded idiots. Should just have been happy, and grateful, to be where they were...

 

[DC2 10,664]

37 minutes ago, CrystalCastles said:

In Cup competitions,  12/13 Swansea won the league cup and Wigan the FA Cup.
The last 5 seasons despite some brilliant performances and shocks, The last few years has seen more PL dominance, despite teams not fielding there strongest sides.

• Man City winning 4 League Cups, Man United 1 ,
• Arsenal winning 2, Man United, Man City, Chelsea 1 each

From a League perspective - in my lifetime we have also gone from a top 2, to the Big 4, to a Top 6, and now arguably a Top 8 (Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Tottenham).

Personally i would say any manager of a team outside of that top 8, that breaks into the top 8 in the league now has over achieved. Realistically they can finish anywhere between 9th and 20th most seasons

Finishing mid table doing as expected, finishing lower mid table or getting relegation battle quite often leads to these type of managers being branded terrible and sacked - but at the same time i don't get what they are actually expected to achieve in the PL.

 

 

And who from the list of managers that I gave has finished top 8 in the last five years?

I don’t know.  I just think of them all being bottom 8 year after year.

[auntie doris 1,856]

23 minutes ago, mikebv said:

They invariably get teams to a level, then that teams' fans start saying "he has taken us as far as he can go", and start moaning about the football played..

They then get replaced by a manager who plays the game differently and invariably that team then doesn't do as well because all the players inherited were there specifically to play the system the previous manager wanted..

Fans of 'middle table' teams should sometimes be careful for what they wish for..

i remember Charlton fans phoning up the radio stations moaning about Curbishley and that he had been there too long and that he couldn't get them into Europe..

Deluded idiots. Should just have been happy, and grateful, to be where they were...

 

Curbs was a fantastic boss at The Valley, should still be managing. Decent mid-table top flight side when he left, to be replaced by Dowie, Reed, Pardew, then bloody went down.

Edited January 24, 2021 by auntie doris

[CrystalCastles 229]

5 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

And who from the list of managers that I gave has finished top 8 in the last five years?

I don’t know.  I just think of them all being bottom 8 year after year.

None i would assume without checking.

I agree they are bottom 8 managers.

But my point was more that at the same time i think it is now very hard to achieve more than that.

 

[chunky 4,609]

2 minutes ago, CrystalCastles said:

None i would assume without checking.

I agree they are bottom 8 managers.

But my point was more that at the same time i think it is now very hard to achieve more than that.

 

Again, it comes down to MONEY.

Over the years, many, many teams have not only threatened to break the domination by the top few, but have actually done so. However, none have effectively joined the "elite" on a long-term basis.

Leicester look the most likely, but take Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton, Wimbledon etc. They get up there, have a handful of seasons at the top level, then not only slip away, but invariably get relegated - often more than once! More recently, we've had Burnley, Bournemouth, and Sheffield Utd - and look what's happened to them...

[orion 7,024]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

They invariably get teams to a level, then that teams' fans start saying "he has taken us as far as he can go", and start moaning about the football played..

They then get replaced by a manager who plays the game differently and invariably that team then doesn't do as well because all the players inherited were there specifically to play the system the previous manager wanted..

Fans of 'middle table' teams should sometimes be careful for what they wish for..

i remember Charlton fans phoning up the radio stations moaning about Curbishley and that he had been there too long and that he couldn't get them into Europe..

Deluded idiots. Should just have been happy, and grateful, to be where they were...

 

I always remember and say about Curbushley .... it still amazes me now .. Wolves fans are doing say kind of thing with there manager at the moment .

[DC2 10,664]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

They invariably get teams to a level, then that teams' fans start saying "he has taken us as far as he can go", and start moaning about the football played..

They then get replaced by a manager who plays the game differently and invariably that team then doesn't do as well because all the players inherited were there specifically to play the system the previous manager wanted..

Fans of 'middle table' teams should sometimes be careful for what they wish for..

i remember Charlton fans phoning up the radio stations moaning about Curbishley and that he had been there too long and that he couldn't get them into Europe..

Deluded idiots. Should just have been happy, and grateful, to be where they were...

 

I know my memory’s not what it was but when were Charlton in the Premier League?

Blimey, 1995 to 2007.  Don’t remember them at all.

Edited January 24, 2021 by DC2

[CrystalCastles 229]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

Again, it comes down to MONEY.

Over the years, many, many teams have not only threatened to break the domination by the top few, but have actually done so. However, none have effectively joined the "elite" on a long-term basis.

Leicester look the most likely, but take Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton, Wimbledon etc. They get up there, have a handful of seasons at the top level, then not only slip away, but invariably get relegated - often more than once! More recently, we've had Burnley, Bournemouth, and Sheffield Utd - and look what's happened to them...

I think it is undoubtedly become more difficult to break the dominance of English Football because of Money, but it's not the only problem.

Attitude is also  major problem. 

The difference in Money between the top 8 clubs and the rest is significant, and helps to keep maintaining the "Top Club" Status quo. 

However Money is also a problem because the desire to survive in the PL and managers mean that that is prioritized, very few Managers from mid table or below want to try and win the League or FA Cup.

And very few players at Mid table clubs seem to have the desire any moore, We are far more likely to hear players saying they are tired, or that playing a game a week is a lot. Many also know that they only need to play well for about 33-40% of a season now

Lots of clubs come up and do well in the PL now, which probably is a reflection of the improvement in the Championship in the last decade.

This year we are also seeing a very competitive PL season and teams are beatable. 
 

 

[chunky 4,609]

19 minutes ago, CrystalCastles said:

Attitude is also  major problem. 

And very few players at Mid table clubs seem to have the desire any moore, We are far more likely to hear players saying they are tired, or that playing a game a week is a lot. Many also know that they only need to play well for about 33-40% of a season

That is something that I really hate now. Instead of players going out and giving 100%, they just do what's "necessary", and often, not even that.

As for complaining about tiredness... "Three games in a week is too much" is ridiculous. I know it's a physical game, but it's not as physical as it once was, and players are far fitter than ever before. 4 1/2 hours a week is too much? Most people work 40-60 hours a week, and get far less reward...

[Pinny 2,189]

Cracking result for us against the Scousers... what a signing Fernandes has been. Superb. 

[Hazzman 72]

4 hours ago, chunky said:

Again, it comes down to MONEY.

Over the years, many, many teams have not only threatened to break the domination by the top few, but have actually done so. However, none have effectively joined the "elite" on a long-term basis.

Leicester look the most likely, but take Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton, Wimbledon etc. They get up there, have a handful of seasons at the top level, then not only slip away, but invariably get relegated - often more than once! More recently, we've had Burnley, Bournemouth, and Sheffield Utd - and look what's happened to them...

Our transformation is largely still money dictated - okay it’s not the same sums of oligarchs but we have owners who’ve invested at their own cost (less so now - everything is backed up by cash flow loans with an Australia bank). We transferred expertly yet failed pretty badly a year later but the old guard dug us out. Now we have a infrastructure which is the envy of lots of clubs - scouting, analytics, sports science - a lot lead by Pearson originally and most people he put in position who remain there. (Ranieri’s downfall was largely trying to rip this up) 

On transformations, two years ago we were sent out of the cup by Newport and completely looked devoid of responsibility. Today we changed 8, started poorly but eventually blew Brentford away. I suspect our first blow to the current form is coming on Wednesday but bloody hell, you have to rub you eyes to see Leicester City as the club they are now. 

[chunky 4,609]

19 minutes ago, Hazzman said:

I suspect our first blow to the current form is coming on Wednesday but bloody hell, you have to rub you eyes to see Leicester City as the club they are now. 

Obviously, even when you won the league, you were one of the favourites for relegation the following season - which was an insult! It doesn't matter that you haven't won it since, you've proved that you "belong".

As you say, the club as a whole has done wonders, and that should stand you in good stead for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised on Wednesday? 

[wealdstone 3,076]

37 minutes ago, Hazzman said:

Our transformation is largely still money dictated - okay it’s not the same sums of oligarchs but we have owners who’ve invested at their own cost (less so now - everything is backed up by cash flow loans with an Australia bank). We transferred expertly yet failed pretty badly a year later but the old guard dug us out. Now we have a infrastructure which is the envy of lots of clubs - scouting, analytics, sports science - a lot lead by Pearson originally and most people he put in position who remain there. (Ranieri’s downfall was largely trying to rip this up) 

On transformations, two years ago we were sent out of the cup by Newport and completely looked devoid of responsibility. Today we changed 8, started poorly but eventually blew Brentford away. I suspect our first blow to the current form is coming on Wednesday but bloody hell, you have to rub you eyes to see Leicester City as the club they are now. 

Well done Leicester a deserved victory over Brentford  Youth  team . Totally deserved win even though penalty dodgy to say the least. Looked at it several times can't see any contact whatsoever.

[Hazzman 72]

11 hours ago, wealdstone said:

Well done Leicester a deserved victory over Brentford  Youth  team . Totally deserved win even though penalty dodgy to say the least. Looked at it several times can't see any contact whatsoever.

I don’t want to be ‘that guy’ on penalties - but the Brentford player who committed the foul did a blatant dive on the edge of the box on the first half which led to our keeper having to make a good save. For the all the talk of retrospective bans, was probably the best medicine