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MatthewAiden

British Speedway to be reborn??

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14 minutes ago, jenga said:

Hull and Workington both had winning teams in their final seasons , but did not come to the tapes the following season .

worky even had cookie in the team when he was an out n out number one . being local , craig put a few more bums in the ground . but not that many to shout about .

the sport is too expensive to run with riders expecting full time wages . 

early days glory cannot be kept going in this day n age .

Hull's most winning season was 2004, came to the tapes in 2005 but the financial issues from the pervious season were still ongoing and the season was not completed, with 2 home matches not raced (v Glasgow & King's Lynn).  But point taken, a sucessful winning season is often difficult financially due to an increased wage bill with more points being scored. ...

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Go on to Facebook and look for "The Speedway Chat Show".

They did a live stream of an NDL level meeting last Tuesday at Plymouth.

Last heat decider won on last bend.

Super racing, plenty of passing, excellent track conditions. Track was not graded once.

Good quality streaming, interesting Commentary, not perfect but raw and entertaining.

That's 3rd tier , base level, small team trying hard.

That's got to be the template. Find the level where it's affordable, exciting, streamed and viable.

Edited by HGould
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4 hours ago, martinmauger said:

Hull's most winning season was 2004, came to the tapes in 2005 but the financial issues from the pervious season were still ongoing and the season was not completed, with 2 home matches not raced (v Glasgow & King's Lynn).  But point taken, a sucessful winning season is often difficult financially due to an increased wage bill with more points being scored. ...

for some reason i thought hull did not come to the tapes after they had their great season . was dave peet in charge for that season ? had a few visits to hull over the years due to extended family ties . i found the hull fans chatty and very welcoming . (apart from one dipstick !  who  called out to stoney when he fell off. .get up ya bum ). stoney a bum , whatever next . maybe the early days will return ?

 

 

Edited by jenga

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Best view I’ve ever experienced at a speedway track at Craven Park, sitting in that big stand on the home straight was awesome. 

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2 hours ago, jenga said:

for some reason i thought hull did not come to the tapes after they had their great season . was dave peet in charge for that season ? had a few visits to hull over the years due to extended family ties . i found the hull fans chatty and very welcoming . (apart from one dipstick !  who  called out to stoney when he fell off. .get up ya bum ). stoney a bum , whatever next . maybe the early days will return ?

 

 

Dave Peet was co-promoter in 2005, Stoney was a popular visitor at Hull but you always get the odd ill-advised comment anywhere....

1 hour ago, Bagpuss said:

Best view I’ve ever experienced at a speedway track at Craven Park, sitting in that big stand on the home straight was awesome. 

Yeah, great view from the CP main stand....

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:45 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

True speedway fans go to watch RACING not individuals. You could argue that racing should take place if a lesser rider tries to beat a ‘ star ‘ but the names don’t mean a thing, it’s the quality of the racing that counts.

That is my take on it and over the last few years at King's Lynn` I saw precioud little regular good qualityu racing but went to see the Stars  of Tomorrow on March 8th - excellent racing with riders eager to give it their all. Points money only in pro speedway  will go a long way to ensure that riders ALL want to give it a go. I love Robert Lambert but if he gated every time that would soon lose it's appeal!

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:45 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

True speedway fans go to watch RACING not individuals. 

There is clearly though very, very few true fans who simply invest in the idea of great racing regardless of the level of rider . That has always been a comfort blanket fantasy grasped to by some on this forum. 

If you put a GP on tomorrow at Belle Vue and then a National League Riders Championship the next night..... one of them is getting a much bigger crowd than the other (in circumstance when people could attend sport clearly) 

"Ahhh but Isle of Wight went NL and ahhh Eastbourne" 

Clearly there will be exceptions to the rule, but more often than not people have wanted to see and paid to see the better standard of individual as the better individuals do produce better racing. It is racing of a higher quality than for instance 4 guys at NL level going around "close" to each other, most don't equate that to a high standard of racing they want to pay to watch, it is years and years and years and years of evidence now that support this. 

Edited by Hacksaw Jim Duggan
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18 hours ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

There is clearly though very, very few true fans who simply invest in the idea of great racing regardless of the level of rider . That has always been a comfort blanket fantasy grasped to by some on this forum. 

If you put a GP on tomorrow at Belle Vue and then a National League Riders Championship the next night..... one of them is getting a much bigger crowd than the other (in circumstance when people could attend sport clearly) 

"Ahhh but Isle of Wight went NL and ahhh Eastbourne" 

Clearly there will be exceptions to the rule, but more often than not people have wanted to see and paid to see the better standard of individual as the better individuals do produce better racing. It is racing of a higher quality than for instance 4 guys at NL level going around "close" to each other, most don't equate that to a high standard of racing they want to pay to watch, it is years and years and years and years of evidence now that support this. 

I disagree.

Ive seen some excellent NL matches and dire ‘ Elite ‘ league matches, same goes for quite a few G.P.’S even at Cardiff.

 I’ve also witnessed larger crowds at championship clubs than Belle Vue , Leicester ( elite days ) and P’ Bro so your statement doesn’t hold water.

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1 minute ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

I disagree.

Ive seen some excellent NL matches and dire ‘ Elite ‘ league matches, same goes for quite a few G.P.’S even at Cardiff.

 I’ve also witnessed larger crowds at championship clubs than Belle Vue , Leicester ( elite days ) and P’ Bro so your statement doesn’t hold water.

I think the mythology around the NL is one that has been romanticized on this forum to the point people simply ignore reality.  You only have to look at the name of the league, the purpose of the league and standard of rider in the league.....a lot of the racing is utterly turgid - sure the occasional race might pop up on YouTube and people think that is evidence that every meeting is an instant classic, but it is complete bollocks. It is also a league that has been in place for years, and years and years in many different forms and never had the crowds to back up what is a feeling from some that it is a standard of racing to bring in a crowd. The vast majority of teams can't get out of it quick enough. It is a league that shows "racing" alone is only a selling point to very, very few. 

In relation to your point on crowds. I said in my previous post, there will be instances of larger crowds at certain tracks on occasion and yes people will make mention of Glasgow as a Championship side who attract great crowds while also then also completely overlooking that most crowds are rank rotten, as they are at most tracks in the NL. It is the few rather than the majority who attract a better crowd in a lower league, again, hence why most teams typically look to move back up leagues rather than down. 

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:45 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

 

True speedway fans go to watch RACING not individuals. 

No they don't . one the biggest  speedway myth of all time.

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1 hour ago, orion said:

No they don't . one the biggest  speedway myth of all time.

So why do neutral fans go to other tracks  ? ( Newcastle fans go to Redcar every week for example )
why go to individual meetings ?

why go to GP’s?

to watch RACING!.

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1 hour ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

I think the mythology around the NL is one that has been romanticized on this forum to the point people simply ignore reality.  You only have to look at the name of the league, the purpose of the league and standard of rider in the league.....a lot of the racing is utterly turgid - sure the occasional race might pop up on YouTube and people think that is evidence that every meeting is an instant classic, but it is complete bollocks. It is also a league that has been in place for years, and years and years in many different forms and never had the crowds to back up what is a feeling from some that it is a standard of racing to bring in a crowd. The vast majority of teams can't get out of it quick enough. It is a league that shows "racing" alone is only a selling point to very, very few. 

In relation to your point on crowds. I said in my previous post, there will be instances of larger crowds at certain tracks on occasion and yes people will make mention of Glasgow as a Championship side who attract great crowds while also then also completely overlooking that most crowds are rank rotten, as they are at most tracks in the NL. It is the few rather than the majority who attract a better crowd in a lower league, again, hence why most teams typically look to move back up leagues rather than down. 

 

Clubs move leagues for business reasons. Somerset, Peterborough, Leicester all found they got the same crowd for Elite as they did for championship matches but the wages were a lot less , and often, the fans preferred the standard of championship RACING.
Ive seen fantastic RACES at amateur meetings , just because someone gets paid more doesn’t mean it produces better racing.

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8 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Clubs move leagues for business reasons. Somerset, Peterborough, Leicester all found they got the same crowd for Elite as they did for championship matches but the wages were a lot less , and often, the fans preferred the standard of championship RACING.
Ive seen fantastic RACES at amateur meetings , just because someone gets paid more doesn’t mean it produces better racing.

I wonder if 'Fortythirtyeight' is 'Philip Rising' incognito? :unsure:

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23 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

So why do neutral fans go to other tracks  ? ( Newcastle fans go to Redcar every week for example )
why go to individual meetings ?

why go to GP’s?

to watch RACING!.

People go to watch the better names before anything else .. if the racing good its a bonus . its just common sense just like would be it any other sport 

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34 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Clubs move leagues for business reasons. Somerset, Peterborough, Leicester all found they got the same crowd for Elite as they did for championship matches but the wages were a lot less , and often, the fans preferred the standard of championship RACING.
Ive seen fantastic RACES at amateur meetings , just because someone gets paid more doesn’t mean it produces better racing.

You are using instances that are the minority rather than norm, I am not denying what you are saying happens happens, but it hasn't been the typical chosen choice and nor have they chose to move to the National League, the NL has been a rehab league for teams who couldn't get out it quick enough. 

And the standard of cost paid to a rider without question does lead to a better standard of racing. It's just gibberish to suggest racing is better at National League level, the notion the National League can produce racing the standard of the Final of the GP the other day for instance is hilarious. 

Awaits YouTube clip...before it is even posted I can state the following - It's slower, it is mistaken ridden, it is technically flawed racing which is why it is a National League and not a Grand Prix race, the National League is poorly attended, there are very, very few "true speedway fans" who simply attend for the love of the race irrespective of who is in that race

Edited by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

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