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MatthewAiden

British Speedway to be reborn??

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42 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

You are using instances that are the minority rather than norm, I am not denying what you are saying happens happens, but it hasn't been the typical chosen choice and nor have they chose to move to the National League, the NL has been a rehab league for teams who couldn't get out it quick enough. 

And the standard of cost paid to a rider without question does lead to a better standard of racing. It's just gibberish to suggest racing is better at National League level, the notion the National League can produce racing the standard of the Final of the GP the other day for instance is hilarious. 

Awaits YouTube clip...before it is even posted I can state the following - It's slower, it is mistaken ridden, it is technically flawed racing which is why it is a National League and not a Grand Prix race, the National League is poorly attended, there are very, very few "true speedway fans" who simply attend for the love of the race irrespective of who is in that race

When have I ever stated NL racing is better ?

I was making the point that racing can be just as good at an amateur meeting as an Elite meeting, you clearly don't agree , but as some one who attends all levels  ( and in different countries ) I’m not snobbish enough to think that a top name produces better RACING . Watch some youth meetings , you will see good RACING.

I obviously don’t agree with your statements,  as a former Comets fan who attends different tracks I regularly meet many fans from tracks not competing at the venue ( Sheffield fans at Redcar, Berwick fans at Newcastle, Glasgow fans at Edinburgh ) and they are there to see the RACING, not the names and wage packets .
without “ True speedway fans “ there’d be very very few clubs left.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

When have I ever stated NL racing is better ?

I was making the point that racing can be just as good at an amateur meeting as an Elite meeting, you clearly don't agree , but as some one who attends all levels  ( and in different countries ) I’m not snobbish enough to think that a top name produces better RACING . Watch some youth meetings , you will see good RACING.

I obviously don’t agree with your statements,  as a former Comets fan who attends different tracks I regularly meet many fans from tracks not competing at the venue ( Sheffield fans at Redcar, Berwick fans at Newcastle, Glasgow fans at Edinburgh ) and they are there to see the RACING, not the names and wage packets .
without “ True speedway fans “ there’d be very very few clubs left.

 

 

 

It' not snobbish it is an undeniable truth that better riders will produce a better standard of racing.  You are advocating watching a couple of pensioners racing around a track has the same appeal as watching World Class athletes at the Olympics...people going around a track the same time close, doesn't always equate to good purely because they are involved in a "race". 

I meet loads of people who don't give a sh it and want to see the best riders and their team win...there are very few speedway purists these days there for the buzz of a good race no matter the score I mean crowds do reflect that, the sport is on it's arse in this country 

 

Edited by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

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6 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

 

It' not snobbish it is an undeniable truth that better riders will produce a better standard of racing.  You are advocating watching a couple of pensioners racing around a track has the same appeal as watching World Class athletes at the Olympics...people going around a track the same time close, doesn't always equate to good purely because they are involved in a "race". 

I meet loads of people who don't give a sh it and want to see the best riders and their team win...there are very few speedway purists these days there for the buzz of a good race no matter the score I mean crowds do reflect that, the sport is on it's arse in this country 

 

You have your very biased opinion , I have my open opinion.
I DO agree it’s on its arse, but it’s only the true fans keeping some clubs going.

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20 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

You have your very biased opinion , I have my open opinion.
I DO agree it’s on its arse, but it’s only the true fans keeping some clubs going.

Of which there are few... which leads back to what I am saying, the prospect of real racing regardless of who is involved which appeals to true fans is a very niche audience, a small group of people. 

Edited by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:45 PM, Fortythirtyeight said:

Somerset signed Jason Doyle , a World Champion, and their crowd went up exactly zero %.

True speedway fans go to watch RACING not individuals. You could argue that racing should take place if a lesser rider tries to beat a ‘ star ‘ but the names don’t mean a thing, it’s the quality of the racing that counts.

A winning team also helps.

I'm not sure that's entirely true - The crowds were definetly up in my eyes. Whether they were up ENOUGH is a different debate all together.

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20 hours ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Awaits YouTube clip...before it is even posted I can state the following - It's slower, it is mistaken ridden, it is technically flawed racing which is why it is a National League and not a Grand Prix race, the National League is poorly attended, there are very, very few "true speedway fans" who simply attend for the love of the race irrespective of who is in that race

I like your National League quality post :D

But for me personally I do agree with you. I was eagerly awaiting the opportunity to watch some NL action last year at Leicester as part of a double header, but due to Leicester's inability to run a meeting at a reasonable pace it was rained off, so I never got to see it. But I have watched NL standard racing over the years and it's never really been "proper speedway" for me.

I do know that the racing at Leicester (for me) was generally better when they were in the top league with the better standard of rider. With the exception of watching Scott Nicholls last year who really mastered the track, a lot of experience there though.

As for what fans want, in reality different fans want different things. Some fans lap up their team winning by 30 points every week, the floaters probably want a close match with good racing, a new fan probably wants a value for money night out, doesn't care about the "stars" is not going to know former world champ Jason Doyle from the Jason Doyle plumber who lives down the road at 22 Arcacia Avenue

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22 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

When have I ever stated NL racing is better ?

I was making the point that racing can be just as good at an amateur meeting as an Elite meeting, you clearly don't agree , but as some one who attends all levels  ( and in different countries ) I’m not snobbish enough to think that a top name produces better RACING . Watch some youth meetings , you will see good RACING.

I obviously don’t agree with your statements,  as a former Comets fan who attends different tracks I regularly meet many fans from tracks not competing at the venue ( Sheffield fans at Redcar, Berwick fans at Newcastle, Glasgow fans at Edinburgh ) and they are there to see the RACING, not the names and wage packets .
without “ True speedway fans “ there’d be very very few clubs left.

 

 

The best value for money racing I have seen at the NSS was NL standard.

The Colts v Kent and Colts v Mildenhall are two great meetings that stand out over the past few years..

Just £10 for me and  my U18 lad combined, true VFM..

Remove the names from the programme and just call them "Red, Blue, White and Yellow" and just watch the racing, and you would be hard pushed to see better racing anywhere and at any level..

'Superstars of UK Speedway' is very much a misnomer anyway for me, given so few non Speedway sports fans (given the sports' wider awareness), would recognise these riders either visually or by name, and even Speedway fans hardly recognise you as a 'Superstar' anyway I would suggest if only 1200 to 1500 in total or so are prepared to turn up and watch you when you hit their town two or three times a year as a visitor, or weekly(ish) as a home rider..

It will be interesting to see exactly what level UK Speedway will be able to afford post Covid 19 if they want to maintain the three league structure, and continue with so many teams and all with seven team places each.. 

There cannot be, I would suggest, "haves and have nots" riding in the same league if it is to remain viable from a wider collective perspective..

'Walkovers' would quickly decrease crowds even more, even at home for those who are winning every week..

Setting the "sweet spot level" for each league will be a major challenge, but 100% fundamental for the viability and survival, let alone future growth, of all clubs for me..

What an opportunity though for a 100% complete and innovative reset...

Edited by mikebv

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There cannot be, I would suggest, "haves and have nots" riding in the same league if it is to remain viable from a wider collective perspective..

'Walkovers' would quickly decrease crowds even more, even at home for those who are winning every week..

Setting the "sweet spot level" for each league will be a major challenge, but 100% fundamental for the viability and survival, let alone future growth, of all clubs for me..

What an opportunity though for a 100% complete and innovative reset...

 

Completely agree but without a non partizan person or group involved in team levelling we'd get the same greed and self interest we had last time when my team, for one, was completely shafted. So long as we forget or ignore that a league is a group which takes strength from its whole we're bolloxed.

Nearly every club in every division has been up sht creek at one time or another, including Poole, including Wolves, christ you name them they've had a sticky patch. Without unity there'll be no away teams to turn up every week and its in the interest of that home team to make sure the away team is worth watching. Again it screams out for a controller, overlord, ceo, call him or her what you want.

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32 minutes ago, ch958 said:

There cannot be, I would suggest, "haves and have nots" riding in the same league if it is to remain viable from a wider collective perspective..

'Walkovers' would quickly decrease crowds even more, even at home for those who are winning every week..

Setting the "sweet spot level" for each league will be a major challenge, but 100% fundamental for the viability and survival, let alone future growth, of all clubs for me..

What an opportunity though for a 100% complete and innovative reset...

 

Completely agree but without a non partizan person or group involved in team levelling we'd get the same greed and self interest we had last time when my team, for one, was completely shafted. So long as we forget or ignore that a league is a group which takes strength from its whole we're bolloxed.

Nearly every club in every division has been up sht creek at one time or another, including Poole, including Wolves, christ you name them they've had a sticky patch. Without unity there'll be no away teams to turn up every week and its in the interest of that home team to make sure the away team is worth watching. Again it screams out for a controller, overlord, ceo, call him or her what you want.

Coudn't agree more!

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On 9/17/2020 at 8:52 AM, iainb said:

I like your National League quality post :D

But for me personally I do agree with you. I was eagerly awaiting the opportunity to watch some NL action last year at Leicester as part of a double header, but due to Leicester's inability to run a meeting at a reasonable pace it was rained off, so I never got to see it. But I have watched NL standard racing over the years and it's never really been "proper speedway" for me.

I do know that the racing at Leicester (for me) was generally better when they were in the top league with the better standard of rider. With the exception of watching Scott Nicholls last year who really mastered the track, a lot of experience there though.

As for what fans want, in reality different fans want different things. Some fans lap up their team winning by 30 points every week, the floaters probably want a close match with good racing, a new fan probably wants a value for money night out, doesn't care about the "stars" is not going to know former world champ Jason Doyle from the Jason Doyle plumber who lives down the road at 22 Arcacia Avenue

I would question that. I think if you are new it does matter to know you are seeing  a "someone" who is known to be established and good at a sport. I would say the appeal of a former World Champion is much greater than a journeymen NL rider. As a general rule people aren't silly (this forum though.....) people do know what "good" looks like when it comes to sport, attendances typically reflect that, the better participants do attract the better crowds. 

In a world where you took a group of people to a game of football who had never attended football before, what appeals more to more "that guy is Leo Messi, he has been pretty much regarded as one of the best players in the world the last 10 years" or "that is Mike he isn't that good really" - while the fame of Doyle is clearly less than Messi that general rule does still apply. 

RE the general point of creating balance being touched on here. 

The rule changes speedway has made to build crowds, create balance in teams, water down the product etc hasn't worked because there is an element of false and BS to it and most see through it. Sport is generally  about becoming and creating the best to then shot that participant or team down, speedway has spent 20 years trying to remove its self from that, the sport has created a false economy and it is failed one, there is no good, bad, balance in sides and clubs just a really mixed bag of crap with no one knowing what they actually are. There is little wrong with "big clubs" and "small clubs" a club size should generally reflect the local area and population, if the sport had walked that path it would have been OK. 

Speedway does little to create club mentality, club ethos, club identity I would argue these things offer a greater assistance to attendance than "oh jeez get the clacker and air horn out we just got pumped but what a smashing race, pass me my Wulf Sport jacket I am away for a Bovril",

Edited by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

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1 hour ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

I would question that. I think if you are new it does matter to know you are seeing  a "someone" who is known to be established and good at a sport. I would say the appeal of a former World Champion is much greater than a journeymen NL rider. As a general rule people aren't silly (this forum though.....) people do know what "good" looks like when it comes to sport, attendances typically reflect that, the better participants do attract the better crowds. 

In a world where you took a group of people to a game of football who had never attended football before, what appeals more to more "that guy is Leo Messi, he has been pretty much regarded as one of the best players in the world the last 10 years" or "that is Mike he isn't that good really" - while the fame of Doyle is clearly less than Messi that general rule does still apply. 

I agree, to a certain extent, maybe choosing Doyley was a bad example being a former world champ.

I remember going to watch a WRC event at Cardiff a few years back and although I didn't really know who most of the drivers were it was clear to see who the WRC drivers were compared to club drivers, the difference was night and day

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