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chunky

Unbalanced Team Performances

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7 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

The other two are still unbalanced - but the Oxford win is impressive because it's unbalanced and they still managed to win!

That's why I thought John Boulger's 21-point max against Reading in 1976 was so good; he scored over half the points for the winning team!

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1 hour ago, chunky said:

That's why I thought John Boulger's 21-point max against Reading in 1976 was so good; he scored over half the points for the winning team!

I still can't decide which league performance I saw by JB impressed me most, the 21 points against Reading or his debut meeting in the UK for Long Eaton against Exeter in April 1967, when he rode at reserve and scored a paid maximum (11+1).  Probably the 21 points just edges it as Exeter provided poor opposition on the night, with Ray Wilson (12), Jim Lightfoot (11+1) and Anders Michanek (11+1) also unbeaten.

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Following on from my earlier post regarding at least Chunky's point 1, I have come across

1946

18th May Belle Vue vs Wimbledon League Jack Parker, Eric Langton & Wally Lloyd all 4-12

19th October Bradford vs Northern League Stars Alec Statham, Bill Longley & Ernie Price all 4-12

None in the Northern League or Non-League

 

1947

3rd May Belle Vue vs New Cross League Jack Parker, dent Oliver & Wally Lloyd

17th May Bradford vs West Ham League Alec Statham, Ron Clarke & Oliver Hart

14th July Bradford AT Newcastle in a Challenge had Alec Statham, Max Grosskreutz & Ernie Price all unbeaten

None in the National League (NL) 2 or 3 or Non-League

 

None in NL1 in 1948 but there were at least 2 meetings where there were 2 riders on 4-12 and an unbeaten reserve on 2-6.

If anyone is interested I will continue looking for these results otherwise I'll leave it at that.

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3 hours ago, compost said:

Following on from my earlier post regarding at least Chunky's point 1, I have come across

1946

18th May Belle Vue vs Wimbledon League Jack Parker, Eric Langton & Wally Lloyd all 4-12

19th October Bradford vs Northern League Stars Alec Statham, Bill Longley & Ernie Price all 4-12

None in the Northern League or Non-League

 

1947

3rd May Belle Vue vs New Cross League Jack Parker, dent Oliver & Wally Lloyd

17th May Bradford vs West Ham League Alec Statham, Ron Clarke & Oliver Hart

14th July Bradford AT Newcastle in a Challenge had Alec Statham, Max Grosskreutz & Ernie Price all unbeaten

None in the National League (NL) 2 or 3 or Non-League

 

None in NL1 in 1948 but there were at least 2 meetings where there were 2 riders on 4-12 and an unbeaten reserve on 2-6.

If anyone is interested I will continue looking for these results otherwise I'll leave it at that.

 Of course, I know that some race formats were more likely to have that happen, but the BL 13-heat format (with Heat 2 as the reserves race) made it much more difficult. I did find a BSF post from a few years back where somebody stated that it was "impossible" to have that post-1968. However, it wasn't impossible, but it was impossible for the three heat-leader positions (it could happen with positions 2, 3, and 4).

Obviously, I don't want anyone to devote their lives to looking for stuff like this to help me (not that old-time speedway fans like us have a life :rolleyes:), but I certainly appreciate everybody's efforts! 

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Wimbledon 54 v Coventry 24, 9th May 1968.

Nigel Boocock scored 16 out of 18. Other than Nigels rides, it was a 5-1 to Wimbledon every time!

 

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20 minutes ago, BobC said:

Wimbledon 54 v Coventry 24, 9th May 1968.

Nigel Boocock scored 16 out of 18. Other than Nigels rides, it was a 5-1 to Wimbledon every time!

 

Les Owen also picked up a third place point plus a bonus for finishing behind Nigel, when Reg Luckhurst had machine failure in heat 10, but no other Bees rider beat an opponent.

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One that sticks in my mind was Nottingham's trip to Middlesbrough's in 1980,mike Sampson scored an 18 point maximum in a 50_28 defeat.

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7 hours ago, burton1 said:

One that sticks in my mind was Nottingham's trip to Middlesbrough's in 1980,mike Sampson scored an 18 point maximum in a 50_28 defeat.

One of my favourites was Mike!

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Looked into chunky's point 1 a while back now and have only just been able to post the findings. Covers 1930 to 1948 and 1954 to 1969.

17/4/30 Coventry vs Exeter Challenge Jack Parker, George Allbrook, Tom Farndon all 3-9
12/6/30 Coventry vs High Beech League Jack Parker, Tom Farndon, Arthur Tims all 3-9
12/7/30 Southampton vs Exeter South Coast Championship Frank Goulden, Arnie Hansen, Geoff Taylor all 3-9
19/7/30 Stamford Bridge vs Coventry Challenge Frank Arthur, Arthur Warwick, Wal Phillips all 3-9
2/8/30 Stamford Bridge vs West Ham London Cup round 1 1st leg Frank Arthur, Wal Phillips, Arthur Warwick all 4-12
11/9/30 Wembley vs West Ham League Jack Ormston, Harry Whitfield, Colin Watson all 3-9
7/5/30 Cardiff (as Wales) vs Crystal Palace Challenge Bill Clibbett, Ron Baker, Ted Bravery all 3-9

20/6/31 Leeds vs Lea Bridge 2 Challenge Frank Charles, Gordon Byers, Roy Barrowclough all 3-9
12/9/31 Belle Vue vs Leeds Northern Cup Final 1st leg Frank Varey, Eric Langton, Max Grosskreutz all 3-9
10/10/31 Crystal Palace vs Lea Bridge League Joe Francis, Tom Farndon, Nobby Key
20/6/31 Nottingham vs Sheffield Challenge Billy Ellmore, Fred Strecker, George Wigfield all 3-9
19/8/31 Stamford Bridge vs Leicester Super National Trophy round 3 2nd leg Frank Arthur, Gus Kuhn, Arthur Warwick all 4-12
5/9/31 Stamford Bridge vs Lea Bridge League Dick Smythe, Gus Kuhn, Arthur Warwick all 3-9

25/6/32 Stamford Bridge vs Wimbledon NSA Trophy Frank Arthur, Wal Phillips, Dick Smythe all 3-9
6/7/32 Stamford Bridge vs Wembley NSA Trophy Frank Arthur, Arthur Warwick, Wal Phillips all 3-9
9/7/32 Stamford Bridge vs Crystal Palace & Wembley Challenge Frank Arthur, Arthur Warwick, Wal Phillips all 3-9

4/7/33 Belle Vue AT Plymouth League Eric Langton, Bill Kitchen, Bob Harrison att 3-12
12/10/33 Belle Vue AT Wembley League Bill Kitchen & Joe Abbott 3-12, Frank Charles 2-8
13/7/33 Wembley vs Clapton League Gordon Byers, Wally Klimister, Ginger Lees att 3-12
5/10/33 Wembley vs Plymouth League Colin Watson, Lionel Van Praag, Wally Klimister all 3-12

29/5/34 Belle Vue AT Hall Green League Eric Langton, Bill Kitchen, Frank Charles all 3-9
6/9/34 West Ham vs Plymouth League Tiger Stevenson, Tommy Croombs, Broncho Dixon all 3-9

Nil in 1935

12/5/36 West Ham vs Hackney ACU Cup Bluey Wilkinson, Tommy Croombs, Tiger Stevenson all 4-12

9/7/37 Hackney vs West Ham ACU Cup Morian Hansen, Cordy Milne, Dick Case all 4-12
26/4/37 Bristol AT Liverpool League Bill Rogers, Harry Shepherd, Roy Dook all 4-12
4/5/37 Southampton vs Hall Green League Frank Goulden, Bert Jones, Billy Dallison all 4-12
29/9/37 Southampton vs Belle Vue Merserysiders League Frank Goulden, Sid Griffiths, Billy Dallison all 4-12

25/6/38 Norwich vs Southampton National Trophy Division 2 Semi-Final Replay Wal Morton, Max Grosskreutz, Bert Spencer all 3-9
10/9/38 Norwich vs Southampton League  Wal Morton, Max Grosskreutz, Bert Spencer all 4-12
4/7/38 Hackney AT Newcastle League Doug Wells, Archie Windmill, Frank Hodgson all 4-12
8/6/38 Southampton vs Hackney EST Frank Goulden, Sid Griffiths, Billy Dallison all 4-12

10/8/39 Wembley vs New Cross League Malcolm Craven, Tommy Price, Lionel Van Praag all 4-12
1/7/39 Belle Vue vs West Ham League Bob Harrison, Bill Kitchen, Frank Varey all 4-12
20/5/39 Norwich vs Crystal Palace EST Wal Morton, Jock Sweet, Bert Spencer all 4-12
6/7/39 Sheffield vs Stoke League Ernie Evans, Stan Williams, Broncho Dixon all 4-12
8/6/39 Newcastle AT Stoke League George Pepper, Maurice Stobbart both 4-12, Billy Lamont 3-9
3/6/39 Glasgow vs Southampton Challenge George Pepper, George Wilks, Malcolm Craven all 3-9

46-48 already done

26/6/54 Birmingham vs Harringay League Ron Mountford 4-12, Jim Tolley 4-12, Alan Hunt 4-12

Nil in 1955

18/8/56 Coventry vs Rayleigh League Bob Mark 5-15, Per Olaf Soderman 5-15, Reg Duval 2-6
26/5/56 Birmingham vs Poole League Alan HUnt 4-12, Doug Davies 4-12, Neil Mortimer 2-6

Nil in 1957 to 1960

10/8/61 Sheffield vs Rayleigh League Ronnie Rolfe, Guy Allott, Bernard McArthur 4-12
10/9/61 Poole AT Stoke League Tony Lewis, Ross Gilbertson, Ken Middleditch 4-12

5/6/62 Southampton vs Oxford League Barry Briggs, Bjorn Knutsson 4-12, Dick Bradley 2-6
2/8/62 Wimbledon AT Oxford League Ron How, Bob Andrews 4-12, Cyril Brine 2-6
13/8/62 Exeter vs Newcastle League Len Silver, Francis Cann 4-12, Eric Howe 2-6
6/9/62 Sheffield vs Bradford League Clive Featherby, Guy Allott, Tommy Roper 4-12

3/6/63 Cradley vs Long Eaton League Ivor Brown, John Hart 4-12, John Belcher 2-6
19/10/63 Stoke vs Provincial League Select Challenge Pete Jarman, Ken Adams, Colin Pratt 4-12

15/7/64 Poole vs Sheffield League Ross Gilbertson, Geoff Mudge, Tony Lewis 4-12
18/4/64 Edinburgh vs Glasgow Northern League Doug Templeton, Wayne Briggs, George Hunter 4-12

28/5/65 Glasgow vs Long Eaton League Charlie Monk, Bluey Scott, Willie Templeton 4-12
11/5/65 Exeter vs Cradley Southern League Jimmy Squibb, Len Silver 4-12, Pat Flanagan 2-6

17/9/66 Coventry vs Swindon League Col Cottrell, Rick Francis, Jim Lightfoot all 4-12

30/9/67 Edinburgh vs Sheffield League Doug Templeton, George Hunter, Bert Harkins all 4-12

26/9/68 Sheffield vs Belle Vue League Charlie Monk, John Dews, Brian Maxted all 4-12

Nil in 1969

 

Bolded Cardiff as they were the first non-league team/track to record 3 riders unbeaten in a match (Glasgow in 1939 were ther Only other non-league team to record such an event).

Stamford Bridge must have had some heat leadership and/or home advantage as there riders managed 3 unbeaten performances 7 times (in only 4 seasons too) and Frank Arthur was involved in 6 of them.

The Coventry match in 1956 was the only one with 2 5 ride maxs (plus a reserve 2 ride max to meet Chunky's criteria).

Didn't look at 1929 - not enough info. Also took on board Chunky's comment re match format so didn't look at 1949-53. Stopped now.

 

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On 9/28/2020 at 6:23 AM, steve roberts said:

One of my favourites was Mike!

Remember seeing Mike in a morning fixture Cradley v Swindon  1980 Mike was certainly a BL rider.

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4 hours ago, compost said:

Looked into chunky's point 1 a while back now and have only just been able to post the findings. Covers 1930 to 1948 and 1954 to 1969.

17/4/30 Coventry vs Exeter Challenge Jack Parker, George Allbrook, Tom Farndon all 3-9
12/6/30 Coventry vs High Beech League Jack Parker, Tom Farndon, Arthur Tims all 3-9
12/7/30 Southampton vs Exeter South Coast Championship Frank Goulden, Arnie Hansen, Geoff Taylor all 3-9
19/7/30 Stamford Bridge vs Coventry Challenge Frank Arthur, Arthur Warwick, Wal Phillips all 3-9
2/8/30 Stamford Bridge vs West Ham London Cup round 1 1st leg Frank Arthur, Wal Phillips, Arthur Warwick all 4-12
11/9/30 Wembley vs West Ham League Jack Ormston, Harry Whitfield, Colin Watson all 3-9
7/5/30 Cardiff (as Wales) vs Crystal Palace Challenge Bill Clibbett, Ron Baker, Ted Bravery all 3-9

20/6/31 Leeds vs Lea Bridge 2 Challenge Frank Charles, Gordon Byers, Roy Barrowclough all 3-9
12/9/31 Belle Vue vs Leeds Northern Cup Final 1st leg Frank Varey, Eric Langton, Max Grosskreutz all 3-9
10/10/31 Crystal Palace vs Lea Bridge League Joe Francis, Tom Farndon, Nobby Key
20/6/31 Nottingham vs Sheffield Challenge Billy Ellmore, Fred Strecker, George Wigfield all 3-9
19/8/31 Stamford Bridge vs Leicester Super National Trophy round 3 2nd leg Frank Arthur, Gus Kuhn, Arthur Warwick all 4-12
5/9/31 Stamford Bridge vs Lea Bridge League Dick Smythe, Gus Kuhn, Arthur Warwick all 3-9

25/6/32 Stamford Bridge vs Wimbledon NSA Trophy Frank Arthur, Wal Phillips, Dick Smythe all 3-9
6/7/32 Stamford Bridge vs Wembley NSA Trophy Frank Arthur, Arthur Warwick, Wal Phillips all 3-9
9/7/32 Stamford Bridge vs Crystal Palace & Wembley Challenge Frank Arthur, Arthur Warwick, Wal Phillips all 3-9

4/7/33 Belle Vue AT Plymouth League Eric Langton, Bill Kitchen, Bob Harrison att 3-12
12/10/33 Belle Vue AT Wembley League Bill Kitchen & Joe Abbott 3-12, Frank Charles 2-8
13/7/33 Wembley vs Clapton League Gordon Byers, Wally Klimister, Ginger Lees att 3-12
5/10/33 Wembley vs Plymouth League Colin Watson, Lionel Van Praag, Wally Klimister all 3-12

29/5/34 Belle Vue AT Hall Green League Eric Langton, Bill Kitchen, Frank Charles all 3-9
6/9/34 West Ham vs Plymouth League Tiger Stevenson, Tommy Croombs, Broncho Dixon all 3-9

Nil in 1935

12/5/36 West Ham vs Hackney ACU Cup Bluey Wilkinson, Tommy Croombs, Tiger Stevenson all 4-12

9/7/37 Hackney vs West Ham ACU Cup Morian Hansen, Cordy Milne, Dick Case all 4-12
26/4/37 Bristol AT Liverpool League Bill Rogers, Harry Shepherd, Roy Dook all 4-12
4/5/37 Southampton vs Hall Green League Frank Goulden, Bert Jones, Billy Dallison all 4-12
29/9/37 Southampton vs Belle Vue Merserysiders League Frank Goulden, Sid Griffiths, Billy Dallison all 4-12

25/6/38 Norwich vs Southampton National Trophy Division 2 Semi-Final Replay Wal Morton, Max Grosskreutz, Bert Spencer all 3-9
10/9/38 Norwich vs Southampton League  Wal Morton, Max Grosskreutz, Bert Spencer all 4-12
4/7/38 Hackney AT Newcastle League Doug Wells, Archie Windmill, Frank Hodgson all 4-12
8/6/38 Southampton vs Hackney EST Frank Goulden, Sid Griffiths, Billy Dallison all 4-12

10/8/39 Wembley vs New Cross League Malcolm Craven, Tommy Price, Lionel Van Praag all 4-12
1/7/39 Belle Vue vs West Ham League Bob Harrison, Bill Kitchen, Frank Varey all 4-12
20/5/39 Norwich vs Crystal Palace EST Wal Morton, Jock Sweet, Bert Spencer all 4-12
6/7/39 Sheffield vs Stoke League Ernie Evans, Stan Williams, Broncho Dixon all 4-12
8/6/39 Newcastle AT Stoke League George Pepper, Maurice Stobbart both 4-12, Billy Lamont 3-9
3/6/39 Glasgow vs Southampton Challenge George Pepper, George Wilks, Malcolm Craven all 3-9

46-48 already done

26/6/54 Birmingham vs Harringay League Ron Mountford 4-12, Jim Tolley 4-12, Alan Hunt 4-12

Nil in 1955

18/8/56 Coventry vs Rayleigh League Bob Mark 5-15, Per Olaf Soderman 5-15, Reg Duval 2-6
26/5/56 Birmingham vs Poole League Alan HUnt 4-12, Doug Davies 4-12, Neil Mortimer 2-6

Nil in 1957 to 1960

10/8/61 Sheffield vs Rayleigh League Ronnie Rolfe, Guy Allott, Bernard McArthur 4-12
10/9/61 Poole AT Stoke League Tony Lewis, Ross Gilbertson, Ken Middleditch 4-12

5/6/62 Southampton vs Oxford League Barry Briggs, Bjorn Knutsson 4-12, Dick Bradley 2-6
2/8/62 Wimbledon AT Oxford League Ron How, Bob Andrews 4-12, Cyril Brine 2-6
13/8/62 Exeter vs Newcastle League Len Silver, Francis Cann 4-12, Eric Howe 2-6
6/9/62 Sheffield vs Bradford League Clive Featherby, Guy Allott, Tommy Roper 4-12

3/6/63 Cradley vs Long Eaton League Ivor Brown, John Hart 4-12, John Belcher 2-6
19/10/63 Stoke vs Provincial League Select Challenge Pete Jarman, Ken Adams, Colin Pratt 4-12

15/7/64 Poole vs Sheffield League Ross Gilbertson, Geoff Mudge, Tony Lewis 4-12
18/4/64 Edinburgh vs Glasgow Northern League Doug Templeton, Wayne Briggs, George Hunter 4-12

28/5/65 Glasgow vs Long Eaton League Charlie Monk, Bluey Scott, Willie Templeton 4-12
11/5/65 Exeter vs Cradley Southern League Jimmy Squibb, Len Silver 4-12, Pat Flanagan 2-6

17/9/66 Coventry vs Swindon League Col Cottrell, Rick Francis, Jim Lightfoot all 4-12

30/9/67 Edinburgh vs Sheffield League Doug Templeton, George Hunter, Bert Harkins all 4-12

26/9/68 Sheffield vs Belle Vue League Charlie Monk, John Dews, Brian Maxted all 4-12

Nil in 1969

 

Bolded Cardiff as they were the first non-league team/track to record 3 riders unbeaten in a match (Glasgow in 1939 were ther Only other non-league team to record such an event).

Stamford Bridge must have had some heat leadership and/or home advantage as there riders managed 3 unbeaten performances 7 times (in only 4 seasons too) and Frank Arthur was involved in 6 of them.

The Coventry match in 1956 was the only one with 2 5 ride maxs (plus a reserve 2 ride max to meet Chunky's criteria).

Didn't look at 1929 - not enough info. Also took on board Chunky's comment re match format so didn't look at 1949-53. Stopped now.

 

What a star! I really appreciate the effort!

I honestly never thought there would be that many, but obviously, it is easier with some race formats than it is with others.

Thank you so much!

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6 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Remember seeing Mike in a morning fixture Cradley v Swindon  1980 Mike was certainly a BL rider.

Apparently he was asked if he would like to move up with Eastbourne prior to the 1979 season but declined and was subsequently placed on the transfer list and Cradley came in for him and he was loaned out to Nottingham.

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23 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Apparently he was asked if he would like to move up with Eastbourne prior to the 1979 season but declined and was subsequently placed on the transfer list and Cradley came in for him and he was loaned out to Nottingham.

A very good rider in the Jackson, Wilcock ( etc) mould well good anough to ride in a mega hard BL.The old saying was small fish in a small pool never bought that Joe/ Tom Owen proved that.Sampson/ Perks at Nottingham were a real force again Perks was always BL material.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

A very good rider in the Jackson, Wilcock ( etc) mould well good anough to ride in a mega hard BL.The old saying was small fish in a small pool never bought that Joe/ Tom Owen proved that.Sampson/ Perks at Nottingham were a real force again Perks was always BL material.

If I recall, Sid, Mike in an interview in "Backtrack" stated that he preferred being a big fish in a small pond having caught a cold riding for Exeter in 1974 before eventually moving to Arlington.

As a posrscript I do feel that some of the Division Two/New National League 'stars' get somewhat overlooked when discussing riders of the past.

Edited by steve roberts

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