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Mark

Tape infringement

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There has been lots of discussion about Madsen getting away with a flyer last night.    He should have been excluded but instead got 3 points.   The referee made a mistake but we are all human and all make mistakes.

Under the current rules there are two ways to solve this.  First is retrospective exclusion.  If on replay a rider is found to have jumped to gain an advantage he then gets excluded with his points removed from the heat.  The rider is treated as a non participant. Using Madsen's race in Prague as an example the rider finishing 2nd then gets promoted to win the race receiving 3 points.   Madsen gets 0.

Or have an assistant referee who can immediately watch a replay of the start of every race.  Even using basic Sky Plus would allow an assistant ref to view the start and press the red button to stop a heat within 10 seconds.  I'm not bothered if riders get to bend 3 before a race is stopped for the right reasons.

Edited by Mark

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4 hours ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Just leave and if a rider gets it I’d what it is.

its refs being pricks 

they want to cheat riders and hate being made to look daft 

its inconsistent because it’s bollocks 

Can anyone translate :D    Hacksaw has had a good evening.

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21 hours ago, Mark said:

There has been lots of discussion about Madsen getting away with a flyer last night.    He should have been excluded but instead got 3 points.   The referee made a mistake but we are all human and all make mistakes.

Under the current rules there are two ways to solve this.  First is retrospective exclusion.  If on replay a rider is found to have jumped to gain an advantage he then gets excluded with his points removed from the heat.  The rider is treated as a non participant. Using Madsen's race in Prague as an example the rider finishing 2nd then gets promoted to win the race receiving 3 points.   Madsen gets 0.

Or have an assistant referee who can immediately watch a replay of the start of every race.  Even using basic Sky Plus would allow an assistant ref to view the start and press the red button to stop a heat within 10 seconds.  I'm not bothered if riders get to bend 3 before a race is stopped for the right reasons.

Or speedway could take the step into the 21st century and use electronic aids (transponders) to determine jump starts.

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1 hour ago, Ghostwalker said:

Or speedway could take the step into the 21st century and use electronic aids (transponders) to determine jump starts.

I am fairly certain that transponders have been used at oval car racing meetings for some years now. I agree Ghostwalker - perhaps indeed it is time for speedway to also consider their use?

Edited by gustix

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6 hours ago, Mark said:

Can anyone translate :D    Hacksaw has had a good evening.

Those pesky Wine Gums...:D

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5 hours ago, Ghostwalker said:

Or speedway could take the step into the 21st century and use electronic aids (transponders) to determine jump starts.

Agreed Ghost but my two ideas are cheap and easy.

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6 hours ago, Ghostwalker said:

Or speedway could take the step into the 21st century and use electronic aids (transponders) to determine jump starts.

I think this has been done to death before but can I ask (sorry if it's repeat) a question regarding transponders?
All bikes at the GPs are fitted with transponders, which measure lap times and race times to a thousandth of a second. Can these same devices be used to measure start time response times? Thus, as in athetics, we could have a scientific measure of starts.

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8 hours ago, False dawn said:

I think this has been done to death before but can I ask (sorry if it's repeat) a question regarding transponders?
All bikes at the GPs are fitted with transponders, which measure lap times and race times to a thousandth of a second. Can these same devices be used to measure start time response times? Thus, as in athetics, we could have a scientific measure of starts.

Think it would be possible without too much effort.

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Having in the past seen my football team fall foul of so many poor refereeing or linesman decisions after watching the replays on M.O.TD I was always in favour of technology to eliminate injustices.

However after witnessing the farce of VAR completely ruining the Premier League in my opinion, I would be against using it in Speedway. It's easy to watch the slow Mo's in retrospect and criticise the referee who has to make a split second call on if it's a perfect start or a jump but I'd rather live with the odd mistake being made than go down the technology route to be honest. We enjoyed Speedway's best years without it.

 

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10 hours ago, False dawn said:

All bikes at the GPs are fitted with transponders, which measure lap times and race times to a thousandth of a second.

A slightly nerdy aside.....
We were reminded on Saturday that the FIM rules don't allow dead heats. If two riders finish on the exact same time, to 3 decimal places, is the ref expected to judge the relative finishing positions to a greater degree of accuracy? Not sure what distance a thousandth of second represents, but it can't be much more than a fag paper! These refs can't be blind after all. 

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Or we could just have the radical idea of you're only exclude if you touch the tapes?!? 

Speedway doesn't & has no real need for transponder technology. 

With regards to Madsen, he just has exceptional gating ability. What needs to be worked on is the slack in the tapes. Noticed many times that riders were accused of jumping when in fact the outside of the tapes are released. Theres a split second where the centre of the tapes are still in a stationery position & if you're on gate 2 or 3 & make a perfect start it looks far worse than on gate 1 & 4.

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3 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Or we could just have the radical idea of you're only exclude if you touch the tapes?!? 

Speedway doesn't & has no real need for transponder technology. 

With regards to Madsen, he just has exceptional gating ability. What needs to be worked on is the slack in the tapes. Noticed many times that riders were accused of jumping when in fact the outside of the tapes are released. Theres a split second where the centre of the tapes are still in a stationery position & if you're on gate 2 or 3 & make a perfect start it looks far worse than on gate 1 & 4.

It's ridiculous that speedway is reliant on such ancient and inconsistent mechanisms.

You could have a laser start gate that switches off when the race starts, but could detect false starts. It would also make it much harder to anticipate the start. 

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5 hours ago, False dawn said:

A slightly nerdy aside.....
We were reminded on Saturday that the FIM rules don't allow dead heats. If two riders finish on the exact same time, to 3 decimal places, is the ref expected to judge the relative finishing positions to a greater degree of accuracy? Not sure what distance a thousandth of second represents, but it can't be much more than a fag paper! These refs can't be blind after all. 

The fairest thing would be to give the higher place to the lower ranked rider - whether based on the championship standings from the previous season, or the intermediate classification.

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4 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Or we could just have the radical idea of you're only exclude if you touch the tapes?!? 

Speedway doesn't & has no real need for transponder technology. 

With regards to Madsen, he just has exceptional gating ability. What needs to be worked on is the slack in the tapes. Noticed many times that riders were accused of jumping when in fact the outside of the tapes are released. Theres a split second where the centre of the tapes are still in a stationery position & if you're on gate 2 or 3 & make a perfect start it looks far worse than on gate 1 & 4.

It’s very noticeable in slow -mo,regarding slack in tapes so is he really jumping the start at times,as Saturday proved when he done a perfect start and was brought back.

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